A strange anomaly in Mark 14:41

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Charles Wilson
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Re: A strange anomaly in Mark 14:41 - Another Example

Post by Charles Wilson »

Charles Wilson wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:46 pm Josephus, War..., 6, 1, 7:

"Now two days afterward twelve of those men that were on the forefront, and kept watch upon the banks, got together, and called to them the standard-bearer of the fifth legion, and two others of a troop of horsemen, and one trumpeter; these went without noise, about the ninth hour of the night, through the ruins, to the tower of Antonia; and when they had cut the throats of the first guards of the place, as they were asleep, they got possession of the wall, and ordered the trumpeter to sound his trumpet. Upon which the rest of the guard got up on the sudden, and ran away, before any body could see how many they were that were gotten up; for, partly from the fear they were in, and partly from the sound of the trumpet which they heard, they imagined a great number of the enemy were gotten up. But as soon as Caesar heard the signal, he ordered the army to put on their armor immediately, and came thither with his commanders, and first of all ascended, as did the chosen men that were with him..."
There are times when I need to expand a bit to show more explicitly what is hidden a bit, especially in Josephus.

The "Anomaly" in Mark 14: 37 - 42 may be explained by a comparison between the Roman Watch System and the Watch System of the Jewish soldiers. The Jewish System had 3 Watches, the Romans had 4. Which may or may not be interesting to NT Studies depending on whether examples are found in the NT. What follows may be seen as a "Charitable Reading" of the Josephan Record, quoted just above. The reading does not have to be this way.

However, it fits, both the Josephan Record and what may be seen in the NT.

I have quoted the Passage in early Mark concerning "Watch":

Mark 13: 33 - 37 (RSV):

[33] Take heed, watch; for you do not know when the time will come.
[34] It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to be on the watch.
[35] Watch therefore -- for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening, or at midnight, or at cockcrow, or in the morning --
[36] lest he come suddenly and find you asleep.
[37] And what I say to you I say to all: Watch."

Note the fourfold division:

1. In the evening
2. Midnight
3. Cockcrow
4. Morning

A very Roman fourfold division. Also:

Mark 6: 48 (RSV):

[48] And he saw that they were making headway painfully, for the wind was against them. And about the fourth watch of the night he came to them, walking on the sea. He meant to pass by them

The Fourth Watch, Another very Roman term.

One more example here:

Matthew 25: 1 - 2, 10 - 13 (RSV):

[1] "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be compared to ten maidens who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom.
[2] Five of them were foolish, and five were wise.
***
[10] And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut.
[11] Afterward the other maidens came also, saying, `Lord, lord, open to us.'
[12] But he replied, `Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.'
[13] Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.

CLEARLY, something is being told and something is being hidden. I believe that another Story is being given and then hidden. YMMV. NOTE, however, the Josephan Narrative! I believe that this section is written to hide.

1. "...these went without noise, about the ninth hour of the night, through the ruins, to the tower of Antonia..."

Again let us look at this as a "Charitable Reading". It doesn't have to be this way but it might be correct. What would "...about the ninth hour..." mean? In Jewish Soldier terms, it would mean that this is end of the "Middle Watch". The soldier would have put in some time for rest at the start of the evening and then would have come on Duty for a four hour Watch in the middle of the night.

Again, the point of this Roman Exercise is to show the Superiority of 4 Watches over 3. "Soldiers can handle 3 hours - not 4".

2. "...and when they had cut the throats of the first guards of the place, as they were asleep, they got possession of the wall..." QED.

3. ",,,and ordered the trumpeter to sound his trumpet. Upon which the rest of the guard got up on the sudden, and ran away, before any body could see how many they were that were gotten up; for, partly from the fear they were in, and partly from the sound of the trumpet which they heard, they imagined a great number of the enemy were gotten up. But as soon as Caesar heard the signal, he ordered the army to put on their armor immediately..."


Jewish Soldiers: Cowards.
Titus: Caesar, before he was Caesar, as if he were Pre-Ordained. The end is near for Jerusalem, the Temple and the threat of ummm...the Hasmoneans. It's OVER.

The Hasmoneans? What are they doing here?

There are 2 Stories being told. The first Story is the Story of the end of Herod by way of the Coup Attempt of 4 BCE. The second is the Story of the Fall of the Temple and God's People in 70. Both were undone by a Failure of the Watch. Both came at the end of the second Jewish Watch and both came through the failure of the Guard to stay awake for ONE-MORE-HOUR.

I believe that these Markers were not random and were quite Intentional. Josephus frequently hides what is in plain sight (The Conflagration in the Temple in 4 BCE, Jannaeus in the Mountains with the Abomination of Desolation, the Destruction of the Temple by the Romans, etc.). Sorta' like Matthew.

This is why the Battle of the Watches is important. The Jewish 3 Watches turned out to be fatal twice over. This has to be hidden but not lost.
Paul the Uncertain
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Re: A strange anomaly in Mark 14:41

Post by Paul the Uncertain »

Kunigunde Kreuzerin wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 12:32 pm I don't quite understand why the KJV translates it as a question in Mark 14:37 and not in Mark 14:41. Both times the verb is in Present Indicative Active and in the same situation.
Of course, I don't know what went on in committee. Here is why the difference doesn't bother me, and the sense I make of it:

Both the question at verse 37 and the imperative at verse 41 are figures of speech in English. Jesus's question helps express his disapproval, he is not asking in order to elicit information. Jesus's imperative helps express his acquiescence (acceptance? disappointment? ...) of his disciples failure to complete the simple task assigned to them. The statements cannot be other than figures of speech, since it is vacuous to demand of a sleeping man that he sleep, just as it is vacuous to inquire of an unconscious person whether they are unconscious.

The source grammar is the same, but the situations really aren't the same. At verse 37, compliance with Jesus's request is still possible, and he renews it. At verse 41, it is now impossible to comply with Jesus's request, and he lets it go as other concerns ripen.

I'll happily grant that KJV is a very free translation, but the effect of such an approach was to create a work of literature in its own right. Like their approximate contemporary, Shakespeare, King James's committee has atrongly influenced English speakers ever since.

And as for Mark? He is widely damned for his overuse of the connective "and immediately," and now comes Giuseppe to damn hm for not using it again here. :)
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