Thracian Jannaeus

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Charles Wilson
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Thracian Jannaeus

Post by Charles Wilson »

Lotsa' thread material on Mark 13 these days. In reviewing my positions, I came across another small item that may point to a solution. It is tentative and will require someone with much more knowledge than I have. Nonetheless...

1. My view is that Mark 13 is written from a Hebrew/Aramaic Document concerning Alexander Jannaeus. It is told in Josephus, Antiquities..., Book 13 Chapters 13 and 14. Interwoven into the story is a Roman rewrite, from the Post-Domitian Court, probably written within a decade or two from the death of Domitian. "The Holy Spirit" is a Code for Domitian, who has been voted "Damnatio Memoriae" (As someone has stated, D.M. is possibly a derivative term). All physical evidence of Domitian has been wiped away. Thus, the disembodied, featureless "Holy Spirit". The later Project almost certainly began with Domitian answering the deification of Titus since the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" replaces the "Baptism of John" when only a handful of "believers" would have known of a "Baptism of John". With this in mind, much of Mark 13 gives away its Roman Origins.

2. The Ur-Document tells of Jannaeus suffering a disastrous defeat at the hands of the Greek General Demetrius Eucerus. Josephus is intentionally hiding what occurs. He tells of Demetrius Eucerus camping out at Shechem. "OK...Fine...So, what?...". Shechem is near the Temple at Gerizim. Jannaeus has designs on re-creating a "Greater Israel" ("I was sent only to the House of Israel". "Go to the Decapolis and tell them how..."). At this time, the mercs/Jews who supported Demetrius Eucerus desert the Greek and run to Jannaeus. Josephus is astonishing in his disingenuous descriptions here. Beyond laughable (Again: "President Truman, the atomic bombs have completely destroyed Japan's will and capacity to make war!" "Great!! Now, let's retreat!!!").

Demetrius Eucerus has committed the Abomination of Desolation.

3. In the timeline here, after the Abomination of Desolation comes the Tribulation:

Mark 13: 14 - 18 (RSV):

[14] "But when you see the desolating sacrilege set up where it ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
[15] let him who is on the housetop not go down, nor enter his house, to take anything away;
[16] and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle.
[17] And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days!
[18] Pray that it may not happen in winter.

I believe that the proper alignment of Logic and Sequence places verse 17 with Jannaeus' actions of crucifying his opponents while slitting the throats of their wives and children in front of them. Then comes a most interesting verse:

[24] "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,

This is Supernaturalism and it "obviously" places this occurrence far into the future - Doesn't it? It is possible that giant dust storms hid the sun and the moon (See also: The "rising" of Jesus in Acts 1) but that does not appear to be the intention here. This is about the End Times.

Josephus, Antiquities..., 13, 14, 2:

"However, this barbarity seems to have been without any necessity, on which account he bare the name of a Thracian among the Jews (40) whereupon the soldiers that had fought against him, being about eight thousand in number, ran away by night, and continued fugitives all the time that Alexander lived; who being now freed from any further disturbance from them, reigned the rest of his time in the utmost tranquillity..."

After the Abomination of Desolation, with the defection of Jewish fighters from Demetrius Eucerus to Jannaeus, the Jewish King and High Priest has a change in fortune, so to speak. His opponents - those who are left anyway - are in hiding and will not come back out until Salome takes over.

4. Did you catch it? That one word.

"...he bare the name of a Thracian among the Jews..."

What is that all about? In the quote above, there is a note, # 40:

"This name Thracida, which the Jews gave Alexander, must, by the coherence, denote as barbarous as a Thracian, or somewhat like it; but what it properly signifies is not known..."

I believe that it might mean more than that. I believe it might be a religious epithet. "So...Whadya' got Charlie?" Probably not much. Only a coupla' Tell-Tales. In an article from the ever-politicized Wiki-P, "Proto-Indo-European religion", we find that there are Motifs repeated often enough:

"Well-attested myths of the Proto-Indo-Europeans include a myth involving a storm god who slays a multi-headed serpent that dwells in water, a myth about the Sun and Moon riding in chariots across the sky, and a creation story involving two brothers, one of whom is sacrificed by the other in order to create the world..."

At least there is a tie-in with Jannaeus and his brother. There is also this:

"The myth of the Sun and Moon being swallowed by some kind of predator is also found throughout multiple Indo-European language groups..."

And the "Thracian Horseman":

"The Thracian Horseman (also "Thracian Rider" or "Thracian Heros") is the name given to a recurring motif of a horseman depicted in reliefs of the Hellenistic and Roman periods in the Balkans (Thrace, Macedonia,[1] Moesia, roughly from the 3rd century BC to the 3rd century AD).

"Its depiction is in the tradition of the funerary steles of Roman cavalrymen, with the addition of syncretistic elements from Hellenistic and Paleo-Balkanic religious or mythological tradition. The Thracian horseman is depicted as a hunter on horseback, riding from left to right. Between the horse's hooves is depicted either a hunting dog or a boar. In some instances, the dog is replaced by a lion..."

On the alignment of Jannaeus with the Lion, it might fit.

In short, there may be the barest hint that the "Thracian Jannaeus" isn't just the angry, warlike Jannaeus. He may be despised as another murdering tyrant but he may be deprecated in a religious manner here as well. This may give another link to Mark 13 being a rewrite of Jannaeus' troubles.

CW
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Jax
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

Post by Jax »

Charles Wilson wrote: Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:23 am Lotsa' thread material on Mark 13 these days. In reviewing my positions, I came across another small item that may point to a solution. It is tentative and will require someone with much more knowledge than I have. Nonetheless...

1. My view is that Mark 13 is written from a Hebrew/Aramaic Document concerning Alexander Jannaeus. It is told in Josephus, Antiquities..., Book 13 Chapters 13 and 14. Interwoven into the story is a Roman rewrite, from the Post-Domitian Court, probably written within a decade or two from the death of Domitian. "The Holy Spirit" is a Code for Domitian, who has been voted "Damnatio Memoriae" (As someone has stated, D.M. is possibly a derivative term). All physical evidence of Domitian has been wiped away. Thus, the disembodied, featureless "Holy Spirit". The later Project almost certainly began with Domitian answering the deification of Titus since the "Baptism of the Holy Spirit" replaces the "Baptism of John" when only a handful of "believers" would have known of a "Baptism of John". With this in mind, much of Mark 13 gives away its Roman Origins.

2. The Ur-Document tells of Jannaeus suffering a disastrous defeat at the hands of the Greek General Demetrius Eucerus. Josephus is intentionally hiding what occurs. He tells of Demetrius Eucerus camping out at Shechem. "OK...Fine...So, what?...". Shechem is near the Temple at Gerizim. Jannaeus has designs on re-creating a "Greater Israel" ("I was sent only to the House of Israel". "Go to the Decapolis and tell them how..."). At this time, the mercs/Jews who supported Demetrius Eucerus desert the Greek and run to Jannaeus. Josephus is astonishing in his disingenuous descriptions here. Beyond laughable (Again: "President Truman, the atomic bombs have completely destroyed Japan's will and capacity to make war!" "Great!! Now, let's retreat!!!").

Demetrius Eucerus has committed the Abomination of Desolation.

3. In the timeline here, after the Abomination of Desolation comes the Tribulation:

Mark 13: 14 - 18 (RSV):

[14] "But when you see the desolating sacrilege set up where it ought not to be (let the reader understand), then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains;
[15] let him who is on the housetop not go down, nor enter his house, to take anything away;
[16] and let him who is in the field not turn back to take his mantle.
[17] And alas for those who are with child and for those who give suck in those days!
[18] Pray that it may not happen in winter.

I believe that the proper alignment of Logic and Sequence places verse 17 with Jannaeus' actions of crucifying his opponents while slitting the throats of their wives and children in front of them. Then comes a most interesting verse:

[24] "But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light,

This is Supernaturalism and it "obviously" places this occurrence far into the future - Doesn't it? It is possible that giant dust storms hid the sun and the moon (See also: The "rising" of Jesus in Acts 1) but that does not appear to be the intention here. This is about the End Times.

Josephus, Antiquities..., 13, 14, 2:

"However, this barbarity seems to have been without any necessity, on which account he bare the name of a Thracian among the Jews (40) whereupon the soldiers that had fought against him, being about eight thousand in number, ran away by night, and continued fugitives all the time that Alexander lived; who being now freed from any further disturbance from them, reigned the rest of his time in the utmost tranquillity..."

After the Abomination of Desolation, with the defection of Jewish fighters from Demetrius Eucerus to Jannaeus, the Jewish King and High Priest has a change in fortune, so to speak. His opponents - those who are left anyway - are in hiding and will not come back out until Salome takes over.

4. Did you catch it? That one word.

"...he bare the name of a Thracian among the Jews..."

What is that all about? In the quote above, there is a note, # 40:

"This name Thracida, which the Jews gave Alexander, must, by the coherence, denote as barbarous as a Thracian, or somewhat like it; but what it properly signifies is not known..."

I believe that it might mean more than that. I believe it might be a religious epithet. "So...Whadya' got Charlie?" Probably not much. Only a coupla' Tell-Tales. In an article from the ever-politicized Wiki-P, "Proto-Indo-European religion", we find that there are Motifs repeated often enough:

"Well-attested myths of the Proto-Indo-Europeans include a myth involving a storm god who slays a multi-headed serpent that dwells in water, a myth about the Sun and Moon riding in chariots across the sky, and a creation story involving two brothers, one of whom is sacrificed by the other in order to create the world..."

At least there is a tie-in with Jannaeus and his brother. There is also this:

"The myth of the Sun and Moon being swallowed by some kind of predator is also found throughout multiple Indo-European language groups..."

And the "Thracian Horseman":

"The Thracian Horseman (also "Thracian Rider" or "Thracian Heros") is the name given to a recurring motif of a horseman depicted in reliefs of the Hellenistic and Roman periods in the Balkans (Thrace, Macedonia,[1] Moesia, roughly from the 3rd century BC to the 3rd century AD).

"Its depiction is in the tradition of the funerary steles of Roman cavalrymen, with the addition of syncretistic elements from Hellenistic and Paleo-Balkanic religious or mythological tradition. The Thracian horseman is depicted as a hunter on horseback, riding from left to right. Between the horse's hooves is depicted either a hunting dog or a boar. In some instances, the dog is replaced by a lion..."

On the alignment of Jannaeus with the Lion, it might fit.

In short, there may be the barest hint that the "Thracian Jannaeus" isn't just the angry, warlike Jannaeus. He may be despised as another murdering tyrant but he may be deprecated in a religious manner here as well. This may give another link to Mark 13 being a rewrite of Jannaeus' troubles.

CW
My view is that Mark 13 is written from a Hebrew/Aramaic Document concerning Alexander Jannaeus
What exactly do you base this on?
Charles Wilson
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

Post by Charles Wilson »

Hello Jax --

Short for time at this moment but I'll give you a good reason for much of this NOT being from Jewish sources: Nicholas of Damascus. From memory, this material is being rewritten by Josephus from material that was authored by NoD. Nick's stuff ends after Archelaus and Josephus' expansive commentary tails off at that point as well. I've already mentioned Post-Domitian Roman Court. Tell-Tales include "Jesus walking on water" at a time "about the fourth watch...". Jewish fighters had three watches ("Could you not stay awake one more hour?...").

So... We begin looking at support for Jewish Sources, things such as " אמּר ", a Word Play on "Lamb" ("Immar"/"Immer"). It is exactly "The sixteenth Mishmarot Service Group". The Word Play does not exist in Greek. "Behold the Lamb", saith John. From Pettinato, Ebla, we find that pairing a god-name with an animal name was common in Sumer. Thus, possibly, "Immar-Yah", "Lamb-of-Yah" or "Nmmr'-Ha'ad, (Nimrod), "Panther of Ha'ad".

In John, "You must be born again" points to a Sumerian word that was the first appearance of the word "freedom". The Semitic word means, literally, "Return to the Mother". Nic-o-Demas, a ruler of the Jews, does not understand the IDIOM though he does understand the words.

This points to the Mishmarot Priesthood and eventually to the Temple Slaughter of 4 BCE. This barely scratches the surface. Someone who did know this material left puzzles (not necessarily Atwillian Puzzles... :problem: ) in the data and these puzzles are not Greek.

Gotta go but it's a start.

Thanx,

CW
Charles Wilson
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

Post by Charles Wilson »

Continuing --

1. "Could the NT have been written only in Greek?"
Sure, I guess. There is a trap there, however. If the argument reduces to "The NT is defined to be the first collection of the books written solely in Greek" then there is no argument.

2. "You appeal a lot to Josephus for the "Jewish Part". Aren't you reducing the NT to rewrites of Josephus?"
No. One way of looking at this is to see that Josephus wrote the "External Story" while many of the Stories of the NT are from the INTERNAL events.

Luke 19: 39 - 40 (RSV):

[39] And some of the Pharisees in the multitude said to him, "Teacher, rebuke your disciples."
[40] He answered, "I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out."

This, to me, could be seen as coming from Josephus. It has been Transvalued into the Metaphysics of the New Religion - the "Transvaluation" is expected to come from the reader:

"At this Archclaus [sic] was aftrighted, and privately sent a tribune, with his cohort of soldiers, upon them, before the disease should spread over the whole multitude, and gave orders that they should constrain those that began the tumult, by force, to be quiet. At these the whole multitude were irritated, and threw stones at many of the soldiers, and killed them; but the tribune fled away wounded, and had much ado to escape so. After which they betook themselves to their sacrifices, as if they had done no mischief..."

AS an experiment, I invite you to hold a hand sized stone under a trusting friend's nose while screaming, "I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out!". Has a different meaning, doesn't it?

3. There are Passages that are not from Josephus (Though a "complex" argument could be fashioned to that end...):

Luke 19:

[36] And there was a prophetess, Anna, the daughter of Phan'u-el, of the tribe of Asher; she was of a great age, having lived with her husband seven years from her virginity,
[37] and as a widow till she was eighty-four. She did not depart from the temple, worshiping with fasting and prayer night and day.

This, to me, is Queen Salome (Higher Maff on request although 8 - 84 = - 76 => 76 BCE, the year of Ascension for Salome). Josephus IMPLIES that Jannaeus married his brother's wife in a Leverite Ceremony and thus we have had "Queen Salome Alexandra" for 2000 years but he never states that it occurred. Luke testifies to a different Cause here. So does Revelation.

4. Then there is the curious case of the "Realm of Heaven". In the NT, it is Glorious Metaphysics. I do not believe that it is. The Realm of Heaven is a Real, Physical Place in Jerusalem. It's where the Priests stay when they rotate in for Temple Service. Josephus could tell you this in one sentence. He doesn't.

5. The are a number of Transvalued Herod Stories. They appear to be mapped into "Jesus Space" but are fully descriptive of events that occurred in Herod's reign:

Mark 9: 42 (RSV):

[42] "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea.

Did anyone throw giant millstones into the sea? Yes. Herod did. He built the Safe Harbor at Caesarea so that Petronius, Procurator of Egypt, could send grain to ease the severe famine in Judea. See also: Matthew 7.

6. Others have seen linguistic evidence of a document laying behind the language we have now. Our old Poster Jay Raskin states that Mark and John were Cut and Pasting literally from a common document.

On and on and on. At every individual point you could deny the assertion. Go ahead. Be my guest.

Revelation 5: 13 (RSV):

[13] And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all therein, saying, "To him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might for ever and ever!"

Who was the King? Who was the Lamb? Or, perhaps more importantly, "Who was Jehoiarib? Who was Immer?"

Was this written in Greek? Or was it Transvalued from some other Set of Documents?

Again, simply a start.

CW
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Jax
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

Post by Jax »

You seem to be implying that all of the early writers of the NT were somehow in accord and that they are all writing a coherent narrative. Is this true?
Charles Wilson
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

Post by Charles Wilson »

Jax wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:53 am You seem to be implying that all of the early writers of the NT were somehow in accord and that they are all writing a coherent narrative. Is this true?
No! Quite the opposite!
Look at Matthew 18: 1 - 6 (RSV):

[1] At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?"
[2] And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them,
[3] and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
[4] Whoever humbles himself like this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
[5] "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me;
[6] but whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea.

Here are three/four Stories compressed into a few short verses:

1. "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?" - The Kingdom of Heaven is where the Priests stay during their week of Temple Service. The Kingdom/Realm of Heaven has been blocked by the Scribes and Pharisees at the Temple Slaughter of 4 BCE.

2. "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven" - A priest has been trapped outside in the Melee and cannot reach safety in the RoH. A child - Peter! - will save the Priest since he knows of a Passageway so small that you can only get through if you "...turn as a child" (Note the Transvaluation in translations that have "...CHANGE as a child"). The necessity of "getting small" is repeated with the statement that you must "humble yourself as a child".

3. "Whoever receives one such child in my name receives me" - Where's the rest of the quote? This is hiding and it is intentional. This is Peter and it is central to unpacking the timeline! How can Peter be both a child and the author of the cryptic, "...and he who receives me receives him who sent me"? The answer is that these are from different times. The problem for the authors (to get back to an earlier question) is to repackage the Story into a savior/god story and the solutions are given different treatments.

4. This leads to the point: "whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a great millstone fastened round his neck and to be drowned in the depth of the sea."

Compare with Mark:

"Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea..."

This is, as I have stated, a Herod Story. Herod built the Safe Harbor at Caesarea to get grain from Petronius in Egypt to moderate the severe famine. It is presented starkly in Mark but packaged into another story in Matthew for effect. In fact, Luke has the beginning of the "Small Child" Story and this Story is concerning the Temple Slaughter of 4 BCE:

Luke 13: 23 - 24 (RSV):

[23] And some one said to him, "Lord, will those who are saved be few?" And he said to them,
[24] "Strive to enter by the narrow door; for many, I tell you, will seek to enter and will not be able.

Finally, note that Matthew has two references to the Herod Story of the Safe Harbor:

Matthew 7: 7 - 11 (RSV):

[7] "Ask, and it will be given you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you.
[8] For every one who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened.
[9] Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?
[10] Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?
[11] If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!

Note the two jokes:

1."Or what man of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone?" followed by "Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent?". I trust you see the Egyptian Motif. Then:

2. "If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children...". This is a very cynical telling of Herod's Children, echoed in the passage of Josephus and Caesar, and the cynical NT passages of letting the children come to visit "Jesus".

Matthew has both stories, the Giant Millstone ("Millstone of a donkey" in the Aramaic) and the Safe Harbor in Chapter 7.

It's possible, I suppose, that there was a Greek Novel that had highly detailed, and I mean very highly detailed, descriptions of Calendar Wars, the Mishmarot Priesthood and internal details of an Atrocity at the Temple. "Why are the people and Peter standing at the door in the Synoptics (Peter's Denial) and sitting at the door in John?" I've already mentioned Nicholas of Damascus as a possibly author and I could throw in Mucianus for the Roman Side. Nick has problems, however. He can argue Set Pieces in front of Caesar but if N-of-D is Nicodemas in John, he doesn't get certain idioms that a native understands easily.

I believe, absent evidence offered by anyone to the contrary, that there was a STORY that was dismembered and rewritten for the Glory of the Flavians. I see fingerprints of people such as Zakkai who DID have necessary knowledge. It has linguistic features that make sense for a native speaker of Hebrew/Aramaic - a (former) Priest perhaps.

It seems too much for all of this to be strictly in Greek. The Roman Court at the time, however, had the best and the brightest. Perhaps they could even disparage Alexander Jannaeus with a coded reference to Indo-European gods. If they could write about Anicetus and the camarae boats from Tacitus (almost totally hidden joke in Acts) they might have done anything.

Not this, however.

Best,

CW
Last edited by Charles Wilson on Wed Feb 21, 2018 4:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Jax
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

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I guess I don't fully understand your position.

You mention the Roman court and the Flavians. You also mention Alexander Jannaeus, and the revolt in 4 BCE after the death of Herod and an otherwise unknown story which the Gospel writers used as a template to construct their stories.

How does all of this tie together and what was the reason behind it all? If any.
Charles Wilson
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

Post by Charles Wilson »

Jax wrote: Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:51 am I guess I don't fully understand your position.

You mention the Roman court and the Flavians. You also mention Alexander Jannaeus, and the revolt in 4 BCE after the death of Herod and an otherwise unknown story which the Gospel writers used as a template to construct their stories.

How does all of this tie together and what was the reason behind it all? If any.
Sounds as if you understand it to me, Jax!

Read the several descriptions of the end of the Julio-Claudians, including the fig tree which shall never be eaten from again.. Suetonius, Tacitus, Josephus and the rest. This is a Civil War and while this unfolds, the Pacification of Judea has been given to Vespasian. Vespasian is a general and mule trader of more common origins. Otho comes onto the scene and then Vitellius. Otho is given the Oath of Allegiance from the Legions but Vitellius is another matter completely. Problem: Syria is governed by a Procurator named Mucianus and Mucianus has one more Legion than Vespasian and is in a pissing contest with Vespasian. Enter Titus, who acts as a go-between to end the feud.

Now it gets very interesting. Mucianus convinces Vespasian to March on Rome and take the Heavyweight Title for himself. Vespasian heads to Egypt to umm...corner the grain market shall we say and STARVE ROME OUT. Mucianus heads north through The Pontus. Antonius Primus does much of the dirty work but Mucianus has the Seal of the soon-to-be Emperor. As Tacitus states in Histories, Book 4 (EXTREMELY important to read this), Mucianus took all power into his hands and gave it all to Vespasian.

NOW: Vespasian and his Court seem to feel that they must show that the gods favored this New Dynasty. Mucianus loved Titus and in the debris of the Interregnum, someone (Mucianus?) sees an opening. The gods have given the God of Judea over to Vespasian and Titus. This God states that a Ruler from Judea will Rule and will Rule Forever! All of the spoils of Judea - including the writings - are taken to Rome. If this God grants a World Ruler, Rome might as well be where the Throne sits! Who conquered Judea. Titus - and Titus can be deified! He gave all of these "Signs" and the story of Josephus is too good to not use.

In the captured writings is found a Story of a Priest. It is of the Hasmoneans who were a threat to the Idumean Herod, who was imposed on Judea from Rome by way of his father, Antipater. This Story is rewritten. The history of this may have been given by Nicholas of Damascus, who wrote a genealogy of Herod which may have been appropriated by Matthew.

Alternative Explanation #1: Zakkai, who survived the Temple Destruction and was allowed to a found a Rabbinical School at Yavneh, has been "allowed" to do Contract Work on the NT. Priestly fingerprints which appear to be his are all over the NT.

Alternative Explanation #2: Weitzman's posited Scribal Community in Northern Galilee will start out trying to translate Hebrew mss into an Aramaic Body of Scriptures. It will be slowly Christianized and may have provided Contract Work as well.

This all illustrates the advantage of theft over honest toil. Titus and Lord-God Domitian are gone soon enough but the Project - to provide "objective" evidence of the Deification of the Flavians - is continued. (See also: Islam and Flavius Constantinus Heraclius provide a depressingly similar story). The amazing thing is that after the creation of "Jesus", people Transvalue the Story that is front of their eyes without very much outside help at all.

That's why.

CW
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

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OK. So the Flavians had the NT written to give credibility to the rule of Vespasian?
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Re: Thracian Jannaeus

Post by Charles Wilson »

At least that.
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