'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

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Secret Alias
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'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Secret Alias » Wed May 23, 2018 5:22 pm

https://danielbwallace.com/2018/05/23/f ... nt-update/

Dan Wallace - "I learned that the rep knew, two weeks prior to the debate [between Dan Wallace and Bart Ehrman], that the papyrologist had changed his views."
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Ben C. Smith » Wed May 23, 2018 6:00 pm

Thanks for this. Nice to have what is probably the earliest extant scrap of Mark. Just not as early as reported. No huge surprise there.
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MrMacSon
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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by MrMacSon » Wed May 23, 2018 7:29 pm

What do people make of this?
Post-Non-disclosure Agreement
Later in 2012 I did get the opportunity to see the manuscript ... What struck me about the fragment especially was that in Mark 1.17 instead of αυτοις ο Ιησους the papyrus did not have ο Ιησους. I thought at the time that, if this really was a first-century fragment (which I was not prepared, with my limited knowledge of papyrology and paleography, to claim), it most likely was due to ο Ιησους existing as a nomen sacrum already in the first century. I surmised that the exemplar that the scribe was copying from most likely read αυτοιςοις (no spacing, and Ιησους written with just the first and last letters with a supralinear bar over them). The scribe of FCM then could have easily and accidentally skipped over the duplicated οις. Alternatively, it was possible that the scribe’s exemplar did not have ο Ιησους, but this seemed far less likely. https://danielbwallace.com/2018/05/23/f ... nt-update/

Joseph D. L.
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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Joseph D. L. » Wed May 23, 2018 10:46 pm

What ever happened to the fragment found in a mummy wrapping that supposedly was also first century and was a verse from Mark?

Ulan
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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Ulan » Thu May 24, 2018 1:11 am

Finally. I'd love to know why it took this long. Anyway, it will be interesting to learn more about this in the near future.

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Jax
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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Jax » Thu May 24, 2018 4:45 am

Joseph D. L. wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 10:46 pm
What ever happened to the fragment found in a mummy wrapping that supposedly was also first century and was a verse from Mark?
That is addressed here http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blog ... -last.html

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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Secret Alias » Thu May 24, 2018 5:10 am

Image
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Secret Alias » Thu May 24, 2018 6:24 am

Peter Head Yes, Dan Wallace seems to have been used in a long con to raise the price of FCM so that it could be stolen from the Oxy collection and sold to the highest bidder.
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Stephen C. Carlson
Stephen C. Carlson I don't know Obbink at all. Is there is any hint of such moral turpitude in his past? I've heard nothing.
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Amy Sue Anderson
Amy Sue Anderson I would be very surprised. The idea does come to mind that he may have seen it as a way to raise funds for the Oxyrhynchus work, which is woefully underfunded and understaffed.
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Peter Head
Peter Head I guess it is possible the conversation was the other way around - DO: have a look at this interesting piece; SC: is that for sale, what would EES take for it? I'd pay $1,000,000 as long as it is definitely first century; DO: They may be interested, but I doubt it, let me ask my bosses. ... DO: not for sale, I'll just publish it in due course.
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Stephen C. Carlson
Stephen C. Carlson Peter: Plausible
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David Lincicum
David Lincicum This is after all what the collection did in early days; cf the ‘location list of papyri ‘
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Peter Head
Peter Head Although Obbink has apparently been sacked by the EES.
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Amy Sue Anderson
Amy Sue Anderson I didn't know that.
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Eric Rowe
Eric Rowe What about the contract to publish it with Brill that supposedly existed at one point? Did that contract really exist, and was it definitely about the publication of this manuscript? If so, would it require some confusion about who owned it or was expected to gain ownership of it at that time?
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Peter Gurry He bought that castle in Waco which was a bit odd. https://www.google.com/.../article_6a0ed508-a483-575c...
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Peter Head "a bit odd" is normal in Oxford
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“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Secret Alias » Thu May 24, 2018 6:29 am

“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: 'First Century Mark' Now Dated to Second/Third Centuries

Post by Secret Alias » Thu May 24, 2018 6:29 am

This is the conservative equivalent of the Gospel of Jesus's Wife scandal. Not a forgery of course but similar in terms of the corruption and deceit.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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