Does “Why do you call me good?” mean that Jesus is both the Serpent and the Primal Adam?

[Giuseppe]

The youngest rich in Mark 10:17-30 seems to have any requisite to pose as a Second Adam, insofar he, just as the First Adam, has to go, according to the Jesus's desire, through the same passages of Fall and Redention as per the Hymn to Philippians :

17 As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. “Good teacher,” he asked, “what must I do to inherit eternal life?”
18 “Why do you call me good?” Jesus answered. “No one is good—except God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, you shall not defraud, honor your father and mother.’ ”
20 “Teacher,” he declared, “all these I have kept since I was a boy.”
21 Jesus looked at him and loved him. “One thing you lack,” he said. “Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”
22 At this the man’s face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth.
23 Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!”
24 The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”
26 The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, “Who then can be saved?”
27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.”
28 Then Peter spoke up, “We have left everything to follow you!”
29 “Truly I tell you,” Jesus replied, “no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30 will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age: homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—along with persecutions—and in the age to come eternal life. 31 But many who are first will be last, and the last first.”

Robert M Price says that in the Hymn to Philippians Jesus doesn't reflect Adam (as a kind of Anti-Adam, since he did what the sinner Adam didn't do), but he is really Adam.

In my view the Kenosis Hymn not only reflects the story of Adam; it is the story of Adam, an alternative version analogous to that in Ezekiel 28.

https://books.google.it/books?redir_esc ... ts&f=false

So the true anti-Adam is just the young rich of Mark 10: he has the possibility of ''emptying'' himself (and insofar he has this possibility he is ''loved'' by Jesus just as Eve and Adam are ''loved'' by the Serpent in Genesis insofar they can do his will) but he gives up.

Under this interpretation, then the words of Jesus “Why do you call me good?” may be explained so: Jesus is not good just as the Serpent of Genesis is not good, insofar the young rich doesn't the his will (''to empty himself'' just as Adam ''emptyed'' himself when Adam followed the will of the Serpent). And insofar Jesus is ''not good'', then the God of the Jews has to be seen as the only being who is ''good''. But this can happen only when the people, as the young rich, limit themselves to follow the Torah and the judaizing Christianity. When they become gnostic Christians, then they can realize that Jesus is ''good'' and he is the Serpent enemy of the God of the Jews.

[Giuseppe]

In other words, Jesus is tempting the young rich to become like the first Adam (that is, like Jesus himself), just as the Serpent tempted Adam to become like the serpent, that is, to rebel against the creator, the god of the Jews.

Is this the smoking gun that proto-Mark was the Gospel of the Naassenes ?

[Secret Alias]

I don't know how you can read so much and learn so little (hint reading with blinders prevents learning). The good God is the unknown/unknowable Father as opposed to Jesus. It is by definition providing the clearest signal that Christianity wasn't purely monarchian as Jesus is clearly not the good God. That's all. The likelihood then is that Jesus = Yahweh, the just god.

[Giuseppe]

But I see in the episode a real temptation of the young rich (=the Judaizers) by Jesus. In the beginnings, Jesus seems to assume the same view of the young rich: "only" the creator is good and the tempter (especially the tempter par excellence: the Serpent) is not good. But this view is the correct view only insofar it is the view of who is not (still) tempted with success by Jesus.

The evidence supporting my interpretation is the concept of kenosis clearly in view here in the advise by Jesus addressed to the young rich. You can deny hardly that evidence.

[Secret Alias]

You see a temptation? Your explanation has no foundation in any of the written sources from antiquity. In other words, no one read the passage this way. That's often a sign you've erred. Clearly Jesus is humble in the scene. He recognizes that there is a better god than him. Now it may be argued that Jesus isn't a god in the original narrative. But if Jesus is a divine figure he has some nobility. He is deferring to a greater authority than himself. This tends to suggest that Jesus is the just god because the Marcionite in Eznik have a similar metanoia narrative which highlights Jesus nobility (i.e. he defers to a greater authority and recognizes his own shortcomings.

[Giuseppe]

1) really there is evidence that the Christian Naassenes adored the Serpent. Read Hyppolitus.

2) in the Earliest Gospel Jesus is deliberately described as not a divine figure therefore his deferring to a greater figure is part and parcel of the Secret motif. Read Wrede.

[Secret Alias]

1) but that's not the same thing as exegesis of a particular passage nitwit
2) where the fuck do you get these 'facts' from? we're swimming in an ocean of bits and pieces claiming to be 'first' 'truest' 'earliest' 'most divine.' How do you decide what's earliest or what's latest? It's not as black and white as you make it

[Giuseppe]

1) Isn't this evidence that Jesus was compared with the Serpent even in Gospel episodes?


John 3:14-15 :

Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, that everyone who believes may have eternal life in him.”

Numbers 21:9 :

And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of.

2) I think that, insofar you accept that:

a) Mark is the Earliest Gospel in absolute terms,
b) our Mark betrayes ignorance about the fact that the Messianic Secret is broken sometimes,

...then the Messianic Secret has to be the Feature Number 1 of the Earliest Gospel (proto-Mark).

[Secret Alias]

1) Isn't this evidence that Jesus was compared with the Serpent even in Gospel episodes?

Just look at your sloppiness.

1) is John talking about the serpent in the garden of Eden?
2) is the synoptic gospel narrative you reference a part of John?

I don't know man. It's too much work being the policeman around here.