Biblical Criticism & History Forum - earlywritings.com

gryan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:27 am

arnoldo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:45 pm
This argument seems to be along the lines of Jerome Murphy-O'Connor's chronology in Paul: A Critical Life.

On history as recorded outside the writings of the New Testament:

"Aretas IV Philopatris (Arabic: حارثة الرابع‎ Ḥāritat in Nabataean)[1] was the King of the Nabataeans from roughly 9 BC to 40 AD."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aretas_IV_Philopatris

This is the history connection made by Crossen in his book on archeology and history relevant to study of the life and times of Paul. It was Crossen's book that got me into this type of inquiry in the first place.

Arnaldo, I think Crossen and Murphy-O'Conner are pretty much on the same page.

Jax, I accept Crossen's dating of Paul's epistles.

gryan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:27 am

arnoldo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:45 pm
This argument seems to be along the lines of Jerome Murphy-O'Connor's chronology in Paul: A Critical Life.

On history as recorded outside the writings of the New Testament:

"Aretas IV Philopatris (Arabic: حارثة الرابع‎ Ḥāritat in Nabataean)[1] was the King of the Nabataeans from roughly 9 BC to 40 AD."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aretas_IV_Philopatris

To Arnoldo: This is the historical Aretas connection made by Crossen in his book on archeology and history relevant to study of the life and times of Paul. It was Crossen's book that got me into this type of inquiry in the first place. I think Crossen and Murphy-O'Conner are pretty much on the same page.

To Jax: I accept Crossen's view that the historical Aretas in question would date Paul's Damascus story to around CE 40.

Jax wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:13 am

gryan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:27 am

arnoldo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:45 pm
This argument seems to be along the lines of Jerome Murphy-O'Connor's chronology in Paul: A Critical Life.

On history as recorded outside the writings of the New Testament:

"Aretas IV Philopatris (Arabic: حارثة الرابع‎ Ḥāritat in Nabataean)[1] was the King of the Nabataeans from roughly 9 BC to 40 AD."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aretas_IV_Philopatris

To Arnoldo: This is the historical Aretas connection made by Crossen in his book on archeology and history relevant to study of the life and times of Paul. It was Crossen's book that got me into this type of inquiry in the first place. I think Crossen and Murphy-O'Conner are pretty much on the same page.

To Jax: I accept Crossen's view that the historical Aretas in question would date Paul's Damascus story to around CE 40.

Could you give me the title of this book please.

Thanks

Λῆν

Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:54 am

Jax wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 6:13 am

gryan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:27 am

arnoldo wrote: ↑Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:45 pm
This argument seems to be along the lines of Jerome Murphy-O'Connor's chronology in Paul: A Critical Life.

On history as recorded outside the writings of the New Testament:

"Aretas IV Philopatris (Arabic: حارثة الرابع‎ Ḥāritat in Nabataean)[1] was the King of the Nabataeans from roughly 9 BC to 40 AD."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aretas_IV_Philopatris

To Arnoldo: This is the historical Aretas connection made by Crossen in his book on archeology and history relevant to study of the life and times of Paul. It was Crossen's book that got me into this type of inquiry in the first place. I think Crossen and Murphy-O'Conner are pretty much on the same page.

To Jax: I accept Crossen's view that the historical Aretas in question would date Paul's Damascus story to around CE 40.

Could you give me the title of this book please.

Thanks

Λῆν

I am going to guess In Search of Paul, by Crossan and Reed: https://www.amazon.com/Search-Paul-Apos ... 0060816163.

Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:54 am I am going to guess In Search of Paul, by Crossan and Reed: https://www.amazon.com/Search-Paul-Apos ... 0060816163.

gryan wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 3:34 pm

Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 7:54 am I am going to guess In Search of Paul, by Crossan and Reed: https://www.amazon.com/Search-Paul-Apos ... 0060816163.

Yes, Ben, that's the book. Crossen is doing a speaking tour this summer and I'm planning to attend one of his retreats. So that's part of what spurred my interest.

Jax: Hope you enjoy the book!

Jax wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:01 pm Thank you. I will at least consider the contents.

yalla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:44 pm Just as a sort of footnote to this:
Gal1.15
"But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, ..."

In my RSV it has a footnote to the bolded word to the effect that it is the Greek word 'en' usually translated as 'in'.

This changes the sense of Gal 1. 15 dramatically in that it changes god's revelation to Paul from an external event, a vision able to be seen by others perhaps, to an internal/inner change of self conciousness instead.
Perhaps sitting on a couch pondering the meaning of a section of OT scripture that he has just read and having an 'eureka' moment.
Whatever.
But quite unlike the multiply described external dramatic visions described in Acts.

DCHindley wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:34 am

yalla wrote: ↑Sat Jun 02, 2018 8:44 pm Just as a sort of footnote to this:
Gal1.15
"But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace, was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, ..."

In my RSV it has a footnote to the bolded word to the effect that it is the Greek word 'en' usually translated as 'in'.

This changes the sense of Gal 1. 15 dramatically in that it changes god's revelation to Paul from an external event, a vision able to be seen by others perhaps, to an internal/inner change of self conciousness instead.
Perhaps sitting on a couch pondering the meaning of a section of OT scripture that he has just read and having an 'eureka' moment.
Whatever.
But quite unlike the multiply described external dramatic visions described in Acts.

The passage is RSV Gal 1:16 "ἀποκαλύψαι τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ ἐν ἐμοί" where the preposition ἐν modifies ἐμοί (dative case form), which in the locative sense means "in, on," but can also be taken in the instrumental sense, meaning "by" with a stress on means, so here "by means of me." FWIW, there is no use of the preposition in the dative sense of the Dative case form.

DCH