Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
lsayre
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Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by lsayre » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:50 pm

Jesus refers to (or re-names) Simon as Peter (Cephas). Simon Iscariot is mentioned to be the father of Judas Iscariot. The last name of Simon (as either Simon, or Peter, or Cephas) is never (to my knowledge) mentioned. Is it possible that Simon Iscariot is the same person as Simon, called Peter (and/or Cephas)? After Judas, only Peter among the disciples seems to often be denigrated or at best downplayed as a fool. Peter denies that he ever knew Jesus. Jesus tells Peter "Get behind me Satan". Peter rather embarrassingly cuts the ear off of the High Priest's slave. Etc...

Joseph D. L.
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by Joseph D. L. » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:15 am

That's actually a good observation. For a long time I have thought Simon Peter, Judas, and James, were the same historical figure (whom I believe was r. Akiva). However, Cephas I see as being distinct from both Simon Peter and James.

lsayre
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by lsayre » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:19 am

Peter is also always the only one probing Jesus with regard to the burning question as to which disciple is going to deceive him. A father showing concern for his son? A concern related to self involvement and complicity?

jude77
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by jude77 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:08 pm

Hello Isayre:

This is only my opinion, but to answer your question I'd say it's possible (anything is possible!), but not very probable. Basically, the evidence being offered is that there are two men named "Simon" mentioned in the Gospel (Simon Peter and Simon Iscariot), so, therefore, they are the same. Think about it like this: in your town there are probably at least two men named "John". Is that enough evidence to prove they are the same person? And, a question that would have to be answered is, if Peter was the father of Judas how does Peter rise to such prominence in the early church? Again, this is my opinion and you are free to disregard it.

lastly, in the "for whatever it's worth" category, people in Jesus' time didn't have last names like we do. Instead, they were identified by either their father's name (such as "Simon Bar Jonah" -"Bar" is Aramaic for "son of"- see MT 16:17) or their place (such as "Judas Iscariot", which probably means "Judas, man from Kerioth", although other interpretations are possible).

All the best.

lsayre
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by lsayre » Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:22 pm

The great irony is indeed that the Proto-Orthodox faction which eventually became the Catholic Church chose Peter to be their post Jesus champion.

Nasruddin
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by Nasruddin » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:32 pm

Jesus had another disciple called Simon - Simon the Zealot/the Canaanite. He also had Simon the Leper/the Pharisee as his follower (the father of Mary, Martha and Lazarus). Then there is Simon of Cyrene (the father of Alexander and Rufus), and Simon the Tanner of Jaffa whom Peter knew, and Simon the sorcerer of Samaria. There is even a Simon the brother of Jesus himself.

Only the gospel of John mentions Judas Iscariot's father, and he does not write "Judas Iscariot the son of Simon", but "Judas the son of Simon Iscariot". Iscariot is therefore the epithet of Simon, which makes it highly unlikely that he is the same as Simon who has the epithet Cephas/Peter.

Stefan Kristensen
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by Stefan Kristensen » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:03 am

The last name of Peter is apparantly given in Matt 16:17, it is Barjonah.

StephenGoranson
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by StephenGoranson » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:54 am

Simon was the most popular Jewish male name at the time, p. 56 of
Lexicon of Jewish names in late antiquity /
1 Palestine 330 BCE - 200 CE.
Tal Ilan
2002
English Book, 484 Seiten.
Tübingen : Mohr Siebeck, ; ISBN: 3161476468 9783161476464

lsayre
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by lsayre » Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:37 am

Stefan Kristensen wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:03 am
The last name of Peter is apparantly given in Matt 16:17, it is Barjonah.
Isn't Jonah a first name in this context?

jude77
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Re: Is Peter the father of Judas Iscariot?

Post by jude77 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:28 pm

lsayre wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 3:37 am
Stefan Kristensen wrote:
Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:03 am
The last name of Peter is apparantly given in Matt 16:17, it is Barjonah.
Isn't Jonah a first name in this context?
Yes, "Jonah" is a first name, but people back then didn't have last names like we do. Instead, someone's "last name" was their father's name. So if your name was "Woody", and your father's name was "Willy", you'd be known as "Woody son of Willy". In Aramaic the word "Bar" (as in Bar-jonah) means "son of", so "Simon Bar-Jonah" would mean "Simon son of Jonah". "

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