Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Secret Alias » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:22 am

A strong argument to connect the gnostics generally to Daniel is Irenaeus's testimony (Hippolytus's influence) that (a) they call themselves maskilim and (b) 'the white' from Daniel. Giuseppe is so fucking dumb.
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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Ulan » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:22 am
So why do you think that Matthew replaced an angel (who enters) for the young man (found already in the tomb) ?

It seems that you have lost the sense of wonder for these alterations apparently of no significance.
What does this have to do with my answer? I said you make strained connections. Matthew still has the white garment, just on the angel. While the man may have changed to an angel, the color of the garment is still the same.

And if we remember the beginning of gMark:

Malachi 3
"3 See, I am sending my messenger to prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple. The messenger of the covenant in whom you delight—indeed, he is coming, says the Lord of hosts. 2 But who can endure the day of his coming, and who can stand when he appears? For he is like a refiner’s fire and like fullers’ soap;"

So we learn that God comes for a good cleaning session. Revelation puts it this way:

"7:14 I said to him, “Sir, you are the one that knows.” Then he said to me, “These are they who have come out of the great ordeal; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 am

Reply to Ben:
Hyppolitus's heretics do it implicitly:

...because there is not in you the living man

If they interpreted the Matthew's "white out" item as allegory of dead people, then it is extremely expected to infer that the contrary "white inside" item (as allegory of living people) was thought by these same heretics.

Even more so when the "white" is in both the cases related to a tomb.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 am

Ulan wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 am
. Matthew still has the white garment, just on the angel. While the man may have changed to an angel, the color of the garment is still the same.
Matthew wants that the "white" item is outside and not inside, because otherwise the Gnostics would have continued to interpret the "white inside" item as a clue to an only-spiritual (as opposed to a carnal) resurrection.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Ben C. Smith » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:35 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 am
Reply to Ben:
Hyppolitus's heretics do it implicitly:

...because there is not in you the living man

There is not a living man in you. Not. Because it is a tomb, which is for the dead.
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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:38 am

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:35 am
Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 am
Reply to Ben:
Hyppolitus's heretics do it implicitly:

...because there is not in you the living man

There is not a living man in you. Not. Because it is a tomb, which is for the dead.
if they read the reference to a tomb who is white outside as allegory of spiritual death, then they read very probably any reference to a tomb with the white inside as allegory of spiritual life.

It's so simple.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Ulan » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:39 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:34 am
Ulan wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 am
. Matthew still has the white garment, just on the angel. While the man may have changed to an angel, the color of the garment is still the same.
Matthew wants that the "white" item is outside and not inside, because otherwise the Gnostics would have continued to interpret the "white inside" item as a clue to an only-spiritual (as opposed to a carnal) resurrection.
Neither the man nor the angel are the resurrected. Why do you even go there?

The angel in Matthew is outside, because he needs to deal with the guards who Matthew introduced to deal with the accusation that the disciples stole the body of Jesus.

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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:42 am

Ulan wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:39 am

Neither the man nor the angel are the resurrected. Why do you even go there?
Attention, please: The young man is really already a symbol of resurrection per se. Especially if he is the same young who fleed naked etc.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Ulan » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:48 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:42 am
Ulan wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:39 am

Neither the man nor the angel are the resurrected. Why do you even go there?
Atthention, please: The young man is really already a symbol of resurrection per se. Especially if he is the same young who fleed naked etc.
He is a symbol of the new Christian. In order to be resurrected in the technical sense, he would have had to have died first. There is no indication of that. The meaning of the garments and their color on the other hand is clear and doesn't need your detours. The white garment was used in the baptism ceremony, which was symbolic death, yes. The rebirth in this sense had nothing to do with resurrection in the later sense.
Last edited by Ulan on Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why the young in the Empty Tomb had to be ''dressed in white''

Post by Ben C. Smith » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:48 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:38 am
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:35 am
Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:25 am
Reply to Ben:
Hyppolitus's heretics do it implicitly:

...because there is not in you the living man

There is not a living man in you. Not. Because it is a tomb, which is for the dead.
if they read the reference to a tomb who is white outside as allegory of spiritual death, then they read very probably any reference to a tomb with the white inside as allegory of spiritual life.

It's so simple.
Both in Hippolytus and in Matthew the tomb is a symbol of death. You are reading what is both (A) unlikely to be there in the first place and (B) not actually there at all anyway.
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