the heavenly throne room scene in Revelation and in a Catharist scripture

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Giuseppe
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the heavenly throne room scene in Revelation and in a Catharist scripture

Post by Giuseppe »

I would like to share with this forum this suggestive reading:


Who is the Lamb? Here it does not seem to mean the same thing as in John 1:29 which makes Jesus the Passover lamb, a sacrifice. In Revelation, the Lamb is the constellation Aries, understood by the ancient star-gazers to have occupied ''mid-heaven'', the very summit of the universe, and the first of the Zodiacal constellations. Hence the Angel-Messiah calls himself ''the beginning of God's creation''. He possesses seven horns and seven eyes. We know by now that ''horns'' means comets, while ''eyes'' are planets. Hence he is cognizant of all that happens in the universe and knows where to aim his hurtling comets portending doom.
Is there a hint that the Lamb was somehow the victor in a contest to see who might be worthy or able to open the scroll, like Arthur drawing Excalibur from the stone when all competitors had failed? Or was the Lamb the only one who stepped forth? When he receives acclaim from all beings in the three-leveled universe, we can't help thinking of the confession of fealty wrung from the lips even of the demons and ghosts under the earth (Phil. 2:9-11).
At this point I cannot resist providing a parallel text from a twelfth to thirteenth-century Catharist scripture, the name of which seems not to have survived.
Thereupon the Father began to write a book, which He composed in the space of forty years. In this book were written in detail the sufferings, losses, sorrows, poverty, infirmity, shame, injuries, envy, hatred, malice and generally speaking all the penalties which can befall men in this life. And therein it was stated that he who was willing to endure all the aforesaid penalties and to teach them also should be a Son of the heavenly Father. And when the holy Father began the book, Isaiah the Prophet began to prophesy that a Branch or Bough was to come who should redeem human souls. And when the holy Father had composed the book, He placed it in the midst of heavenly spirits who had remained with Him in heaven and said: ''He who shall fulfil the things which are written in this book shall be My Son''.
And many of the heavenly spirits, wishing to be Sons of the holy Father and to be honoured above the rest, went up to that book and opened it; but when they read therein the penalties which he must needs suffer who should desire to come among men and uplift the human race, after reading a little in that book, they fell fainting in a swoon. None of them was willing to forfeit the glory he possessed and subject himself to the penalties of this life, in order to become the Son of God. THen, seeing this, the holy Father said: ''So then there is not one of you who desires to be My Son ?'' Then one of the spirits standing by who was called Jesus, rose up and said: ''I myself am willing to be the Son of the Father and to complete all things which are written in that book''. Then he went up to that book and opened it, and read therein four or five pages; and he fell in a swoon beside the book, and so remained for three days and nights. THen having awakened from his swoon he grieved much and mourned; but because he had promised that he would fulfill these things which were contained in that book, and because it was right for him not to lie, he told the Father that he himself desired to be his Son and to fulfill all things which were written in that book, however grievous they might be. Then he descended from heaven and appeared as a newly-born Boy in Bethlehem.
The story looks to me like a variant of the heavenly throne room scene in Revelation chapter four; note the reshuffling of the same cards we saw on the table there. And some things implicit in Revelation are explicit in the Catharist version, perhaps implying they share some original in common. We find ourselves in the celestial court with a divine book. There is a context of sorts among the attendant angels, and only Jesus proves himself worthy of the challenge. As in Revelation, Jesus is an angel. In both accounts the books turns out to be a book of prophecy. In Revelation the prophecies depict the impending future unto the end of the age; in the Catharist gospel, the prophecies are predictions of the Passion of the Redeemer-whoever that turns out to be! In Revelation the book would seem to be that of the biblical prophets. It is they who set out the vicissitudes awaiting the Christ, and we are shown Isaiah prophesying as a cameo of the book's contents. The angel Jesus, about to be inaugurated as the Son of God, proleptically undergoes his scheduled destiny, albeit in a different order; his fainting spell models his death, and his awakening after three days and three nights models his resurrection. Only then do we witness an anticipation of the agony of Gethsemane. And then the incarnation begins! All this, strange as it sounds, fits quite well with the ancient apocalyptic schema of ''as above, so below'', whereby what happens on earth reiterates accomplished events up in heaven.


(Robert M. Price, Holy Fable Vol. III, p. 237-239 original cursive)

I wonder in past if even the first scene of Mcn (Jesus who comes down from heaven and opens a scroll in a synagogue) reflects a more older tradition about an angel who opens a book in a celestial court.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
jude77
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Re: the heavenly throne room scene in Revelation and in a Catharist scripture

Post by jude77 »

Hi Giuseppe:

I would suggest that Revelation 5 establishes Jesus as the lamb of Revelation.

All the best to you.
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Joseph D. L.
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Re: the heavenly throne room scene in Revelation and in a Catharist scripture

Post by Joseph D. L. »

Not to digress from the topic, I myself have speculated if Marcion had used the Book of Revelation in compendium with his texts, or if Cerinthus had rogered his original Gospel to align with Revelation, thus creating the text that Irenaeus, Tertullian, Adamantius, and Epiphanius attributed to Marcion, and also creating the legend of Cerinthus writing both John and Revelation.

But the opening of the scroll and the tearing of the veil are, to me, synonymous with each other. Both are symbolic gestures hinting at an apocalypse--an revelation; a great revealing. In the historical realm, this would be Hadrian issuing his decree for rebuilding the Temple; transposed into the traditional setting, this is Paul receiving his revelation.
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