Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

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Secret Alias
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Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:00 am

(One of the Cynics extolling the virtues of Peregrinus) “These are the two noblest masterpieces that the world has seen—the Olympian Zeus, and Proteus; of the one, the creator and artist was Phidias, of the other, Nature. But now this holy image ( τὸ ἄγαλμα = Peregrinus) is about to depart from among men to gods, borne on the wings of fire, leaving us bereft.” [MP 6]

“Pray, what else, gentlemen, are we to do when we hear utterances so ridiculous, and see old men all but standing on their heads, in public for the sake of a little despicable notoriety? That you may know what manner of thing is this ‘holy image' (τὸ ἄγαλμά i.e. Peregrinus) which is about to be burned up, give me your ears, for I have observed his character and kept an eye on his career from the beginning, and have ascertained various particulars from his fellow-citizens and people who cannot have helped knowing him thoroughly." [MP 8]

“All this and the like of it I propose to pass over; for he was still unshapen clay, and our ‘holy image’ (ἄγαλμα ἡμῖν = Peregrinus) had not yet been consummated for us." [MP 10]

Clement of Alexandria Protrepticus:

The Maker of the universe alone; the Great Artist Father (ἀριστοτέχνας πατήρ) has formed us, such a living image *ἄγαλμα) as man is. But your Olympian Zeus, the image of an image, greatly out of harmony with truth, is the senseless work of Attic hands. For the image of God is His Word, the genuine Son of Mind, the Divine Word, the archetypal light of light; and the image of the Word is the true man, the mind which is in man, who is therefore said to have been made "in the image and likeness of God," assimilated to the Divine Word in the affections of the soul, and therefore rational; but effigies sculptured in human form, the earthly image of that part of man (τὰ ἀγάλματα ἀνδρείκελα) which is visible and earth-born, are but a perishable impress of humanity, manifestly wide of the truth. [Prot 12]

Let us haste, let us run, my fellowmen--us, who are God-loving and God-like images of the Word (τοῦ λόγου ἀγάλματα). Let us haste, let us run, let us take His yoke, let us receive, to conduct us to immortality, the good charioteer of men [Prot 12]
Last edited by Secret Alias on Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:19 am

Celsus:

He next represents Christians as saying what he never heard from any Christian; or if he did, it must have been from one of the most ignorant and lawless of the people. Behold, they are made to say, I go up to a statue of Jupiter or Apollo, or some other god: I revile it, and beat it, yet it takes no vengeance on me. ... Do you not see, good sir, that even your own demon is not only reviled, but banished from every land and sea, and you yourself, who are as it were an image dedicated to him (καθωσιωμένον ὥσπερ ἄγαλμα αὐτῷ), are bound and led to punishment, and fastened to the stake, while your demon — or, as you call him, 'the Son of God'— takes no vengeance on the evil-doer? [8.38 - 39]

This is also remarkably similar to the understanding of Christ watching impassably as Jesus is crucified. But notice the context is always martyrdom.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:24 am

I think it is reasonable to conclude that either (a) Lucian knew Clement's Exhortation or (b) core arguments of the Exhortation are attributable to a source known to Lucian.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Stuart » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:26 am

Martyrdom implies strongly that we are talking post-Decian authorship.
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift

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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:29 am

I think that's always been a bullshit argument made purely out of spite to early Christianity. Celsus's quote surely denies that out of the starting blocks, i.e. he acknowledges the mass persecution of Christians and since Romans were cruel to just about everyone there is no reason to suppose that Christians weren't slaughtered in the manner of Jews, Samaritans, Egyptians, the nobility - whomever was the deemed 'the bad guys' on a given day. Again the quote quote from Celsus (one of many in the True Word):

Do you not see, good sir, that even your own demon is not only reviled, but banished from every land and sea, and you yourself, who are as it were an image dedicated to him (καθωσιωμένον ὥσπερ ἄγαλμα αὐτῷ), are bound and led to punishment, and fastened to the stake, while your demon — or, as you call him, 'the Son of God'— takes no vengeance on the evil-doer?

As a Marciophile how do you get around the consistent identification of Marcionites as martyrs (almost a certain jealousy) by the Church Fathers. What reason would the Church Fathers have to lie about the Marcionites or Celsus about the Christians? It plays into their opponents hands. We've went over this before the only reasonable date for Celsus is 175 - 180 CE.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:33 am

And please don't use Giuseppe like arguments for another date - i.e. because you believe in X therefore Y has to conform to X. All of our theories are wrong in some respect. I hate the way Giuseppe 'cheats' to make it seem as he - alone of all theorists - has no weakness or objections applicable to his model when in fact he has the stupidest system of them all.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Secret Alias » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:37 am

- Lucian gives the portrait of Peregrinus as a para-suidical maniac (a la Ignatius/Polycarp) who through martyrdom will become a 'holy image' of the Christian god
- Clement says that by following the yoke of Christ (to martyrdom) we become holy images of the Logos.
- Celsus says the Christian martyrs are the images of their god in the same way statues are the images of their god. Christians assaulting the images of pagan gods do so with the same impunity as the pagans martyring the images of the Christian god.

THEREFORE everyone who wrote 160 - 180 CE assumed that Christians died as martyrs wanting to become images of the Christian god.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by lsayre » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:15 am

Well, the predominant OT deity did proclaim his desire to create man in his "image". An image which resided within a burning bush, and in a pillar of cloud by day and fire by night.

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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jun 25, 2018 8:21 am

Here an example of the way I think. I don't know if this is the 'right way' 'to approach matters. It's just my way.

Ok so we start with the name Ignatius. It's Latin and means 'fiery one.' Curious that the guy who allegedly sat on the throne of Antioch had a Latin name. Odd that his student allegedly named 'Polycarp' would die by fire and both would resemble a famous Christian martyr identified as Peregrinus Proteus by Lucian who went around trying to kill himself by fire.

That's the start.

Then we find out that the Syrian tradition calls him 'Nurono' to this day which means 'fiery one' in Syriac. This would suggest that the name was taken symbolically not literally. If the name was ever translated to Hebrew it would be presumably Seraph which is a type of angel.

Ok. But here's what's always struck me as odd. You have a Latin name preserved in the Greek versions of Ignatius and a Syriac name in the Syrian tradition ... but no Greek name. Why don't any of the Greek sources remember him as 'the fiery one' in Greek.

Good question. The next question would be - what would the Greek equivalent of 'fiery one' be? Answer: Πυροεις or something like that. So where does this lead us? The planet Mars as Cicero notes:
Next to Jupiter is the planet Mars (in Greek, Πυρόεις), which finishes its revolution through the same orbit as the two previously mentioned, in twenty-four months, wanting six days, as I imagine.
Interestingly it was the Romans who named planets after gods. The Greeks had different names. But the underlying idea was still the same - Mars was 'the fiery one.' In Nicomachus the Pythagorean we see for instance that:
with the exception of the Sun and the Moon the planets were designated by their adjectival epithets. Kronos was Phainon, "the shining one," Zeus was Phaethon, "the brilliant one," Ares was Pyroeis, "the fiery one," Aphrodite was Phosphoros, "the light bearer/' and Hermes was Stilbon, "the gleaming one."
While it is not a firm starting point I wonder whether there was some relationship between Yahweh and Ares or Mars. Thompson certainly sees the connection https://books.google.com/books?id=NVt_B ... es&f=false
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Early Christian Terminology in the Death of Peregrinus

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Jun 25, 2018 9:02 am

It is worthy of note that in the Martyrdom of Ignatius he is assaulted by fire and lives:

Trajan said: “Thou camest here not to harangue, but to sacrifice to the gods and to escape from torture, for thou art not better (149) than yon Senate.” Ignatius said: “To which of the gods shall I sacrifice? To him [Ares] who for adultery was shut up in a cask for thirteen months? Or to him [Apollo] who was deceived by desire and overcome by the woman? Or to him [Hephaistos] whose ankles were bound with copper fetters? Or to that effeminate one [Bacchos] who was torn to pieces by the Titans? Or to them [Poseidon and Apollo] who built the rampart of Ilion and were cheated of their hire ? I am ashamed to call them even men, let alone gods, but sorcerers and corruptors of men and boys [81] and others' wives," transformed into eagle and swan and bull and gold and dragon, not for any good reason, but for the violation of others wedlock, which it were meet for thee to abhor and not to adore. To such do thy wives pray that they may guard chastity toward you. Trajan said: “I was the reason for thee to insult the gods because (150) I tortured thee not." Ignatius said: "I have already told thee that I am ready for all tortures and prepared for all death, because I hasten to God." Trajan saith: "By the gods, if thou repentest not and dost not sacrifice, thou hast to repent afterward; so spare thyself before the torture." Ignatius said: "If I spared not myself, I should make the command into vengeance." Trajan saith to the soldiers : "Beat his back with leaden balls" ; and straightway they perform on him the commands. Ignatius said: 3“Thou increasest, O King, my desire for the Lord.” Trajan said: “Lacerate his sides with iron reeds and rub (them) with salt." Ignatius said: "My thoughts are altogether God-ward, and of thy tortures I reck not whatsoever." Trajan said: “Sacrifice to the gods.” Ignatius saith: “To what gods? I think that thou commandest me to sacrifice to the Egyptians — to ox and goat and (151) ape and venomous asp and wolf and dog, or crocodile [82] or Persian fire or water of the sea, or Pluto, lord of Hades, or Hermes the thief.” Trajan said: “ "I said to thee, 'Sacrifice to the gods'; for there is no use whatever for thee to say that." Ignatius said : "And I said to thee that I sacrifice not, and I depart not from the one only God Who made heaven and earth and all that in them is, Who hath dominion over all, Who is. a god of spirit and King of all (that is) intelligent and intellective. Trajan said: "And who preventeth thee from worshipping both Him — if He really is God — and them whom we all acknowledge (as) gods?" Ignatius said: "Natural intelligence, since what time it dwelleth in man, doth not equate falsehood with truth, or darkness with light, or bitter with sweet. But who do not distinguish them one from the other? (152) Their woe is ended ; for there 'is no relation of Christ with Belial, or any share of the believer with the unbeliever, and no likeness of the temple of God with idols.38 Thou wishest, O King, that I speak the true word which shall convince thee that verily under torture is he who leaveth the true God and fleeth to non-gods. If any of thy soldiers mutinied against thy command and passed to another, what didst thou certainly do to such an one? Necessarily thou didst deliver him to torture; [83] and whom, hostile to thee, didst thou name King after abandoning thee? Trajan said: "That is true." Ignatius said: "And so thou, why compellest thou me to sacrifice to non-gods? For, according to thine example, the true God doth punish both thee, and me the more because I obey thee." ? (153) Trajan said: "Spread out his hands and feet, and fill (them) with fire." Ignatius said: "Neither burning fire nor the teeth of beasts nor the scattering of bones nor the dismemberment of limbs nor the violence of Satan will separate me from the love of Christ." Trajan said : "Drench a reed with oil, and burn his sides." Ignatius said: "I think that thou errest, O King, and understandest not that God, Who liveth in me, will strengthen me, else were I not able to bear thy tortures." Trajan said: "I think that thou art iron and hard as an anvil ; else hadst thou consented, harrowed by torture." Ignatius said: "Not because I do not feel thy tortures am I patient; but on account of the love of Christ and the hope of future weal I account sufi'erings (as) light. For neither buming fire nor inundating water is able to quench the love that (is) toward God." Trajan said: "Bring fire and [84] wood, and kindle (it) ; and having (154) made coals of fire, spread (them) and put (them) on Ignatius that, being persuaded at least thus, he may sacrifice to the gods." Ignatius said ; The burning of this fire of thine leadeth me to remembrance of the eternal and unquenchable fire, though this is but for a season. Trajan said ; / suppose it is by some sorcery that thou despisest the tortures : for otherwise thou wouldest have submitted to us, after suffering so much at our hands. Ignatius said ; Tell me, how can men who abandon demons, as being rebels
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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