Secret Alias wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:32 am
Sigh. Is this really EVIDENCE of anything? Do you ever stop and think what you are suggesting? 'Evidence' allegedly exists for Jesus's non-existence. Think about that for a moment. Please.
I think, for once, that you are shortchanging Giuseppe here. He is arguing that Philip 8 is evidence for a particular reading of Revelation 13.8. There is nothing wrong
a priori with mounting such an argument.
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Mon Jun 25, 2018 11:18 am
Christ came to ransom some, to save others, to redeem others. He ransomed those who were strangers and made them his own. And he set his own apart, those whom he gave as a pledge according to his plan. It was not only when he appeared that he voluntarily laid down his life, but he voluntarily laid down his life from the very day the world came into being. Then he came first in order to take it, since it had been given as a pledge. It fell into the hands of robbers and was taken captive, but he saved it. He redeemed the good people in the world as well as the evil.
http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... hilip.html
This confirms precisely what
already Revelation 13:8 says : Jesus was crucified before the creation of the world!
First of all, good catch. Second, however, the gospel of Philip is extant in Coptic, and I am no Coptic scholar. The original might not sound quite like this translation does. For example, here is
another translation:
Philip 8: The Christ came! Some indeed he ransoms, yet others he saves, yet for others he atones. Those who were alienated he ransomed, he brought them to himself. And he saved those who came to him — these he set as pledges in his desire. Not only when he was revealed did he appoint the soul as he desired, but since the day of the world's origin he appointed the soul. At the time he desires he came first to fetch it, since it was placed among the pledges. It came to be under the bandits and they took it captive. Yet he saved it, and he atoned for both the good and the evil in the world.
- Philip 8a.png (38.76 KiB) Viewed 10814 times
Appointing/placing the soul (or his life) may be different than laying it down. (Also, if appointing the soul does literally indicate the moment of his dying, then he died
twice in this passage, once at the beginning and then again when he was revealed. Does that work for you?)
I have argued for the "controversial" understanding of Revelation 13.8 myself, so I am by no means opposed to finding support for it. This is a good catch, but I need more.