Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by Giuseppe » Thu Jun 28, 2018 10:51 am

Is there some relation between the two prices?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

lsayre
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Re: Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by lsayre » Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:12 am

What is meant by "the price of Jesus"? I'm only aware of a price which Judas Iscariot accepted to identify him to the authorities.

As an aside, since he had done such public things as speaking with (or being interviewed or probed by) the Pharisees, cleansing the temple, making a grand entry into Jerusalem, etc..., why did Judas have to identify him to them in the first place?

Giuseppe
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Re: Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:10 am

lsayre wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 4:12 am
What is meant by "the price of Jesus"? I'm only aware of a price which Judas Iscariot accepted to identify him to the authorities.
Precisely. Is that price greater than the price of the alabaster oil ? Yes? no? why ?
As an aside, since he had done such public things as speaking with (or being interviewed or probed by) the Pharisees, cleansing the temple, making a grand entry into Jerusalem, etc..., why did Judas have to identify him to them in the first place?
because who had to betray/give up Jesus had to be allegory of the entire Judea (just as Pilate had to give up/betray Jesus: the betrayer/giver up is now a Jew, now a gentile).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Jun 29, 2018 6:15 am

Little OT:
Giuseppe wrote:
Fri Jun 29, 2018 5:10 am
who had to betray/give up Jesus had to be allegory of the entire Judea (just as Pilate had to give up/betray Jesus: the betrayer/giver up is now a Jew, now a gentile).
in the Earliest Gospel there was not need of Judas. The Jews kill Jesus directly. The idea of "giving up" Jesus (from the Jews to the gentiles) was already there (Jesus being basically the Gnostic Son of Father - not the god of the Jews). Then Pilate was added as the first "betrayer" (from the gentiles to the Jews) and hence confirmer of the Jewishness of Jesus (the same role of the titulum crucis). Finally, Judas was added to reiterate the point of the passage of Jesus from the Jews to gentiles (to eclipse Pilate in that same role).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

andrewcriddle
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Re: Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by andrewcriddle » Sat Jun 30, 2018 1:26 am

FWIW there is a medieval tradition in which the thirty pieces of silver represent one tenth (a tithe) of the price of the alabaster jar of ointment. Supposedly Judas took as expenses a tithe of all donations hence the thirty pieces represented his losses on the alabaster and oil.
Medieval Culture

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Giuseppe
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Re: Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:51 am

If the oil alabaster = "the recognition of Jesus as Messiah", then Judas who wants again his lost value (by the 30 pieces of silver) is a Judas who feels himself victim of a betrayal by Jesus: he is not the true Jewish messiah in the his eyes, so he "gives up" Jesus to gentiles.

The irony of Mark would be that who betrayes Jesus is really betrayed by Jesus himself (!).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Jun 30, 2018 3:58 am

Curiously, Judas is just mentioned there:
3 While he was in Bethany, reclining at the table in the home of Simon the Leper, a woman came with an alabaster jar of very expensive perfume, made of pure nard. She broke the jar and poured the perfume on his head.

4 Some of those present were saying indignantly to one another, “Why this waste of perfume? 5 It could have been sold for more than a year’s wages and the money given to the poor.” And they rebuked her harshly.

6 “Leave her alone,” said Jesus. “Why are you bothering her? She has done a beautiful thing to me. 7 The poor you will always have with you, and you can help them any time you want. But you will not always have me. 8 She did what she could. She poured perfume on my body beforehand to prepare for my burial. 9 Truly I tell you, wherever the gospel is preached throughout the world, what she has done will also be told, in memory of her.”

10 Then Judas Iscariot, one of the Twelve, went to the chief priests to betray Jesus to them. 11 They were delighted to hear this and promised to give him money. So he watched for an opportunity to hand him over

So there is a causal link between the oil alabaster episode and the Judas's kiss episode.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Martin Klatt
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Re: Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by Martin Klatt » Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:33 am

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Last edited by Martin Klatt on Wed Jul 25, 2018 12:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
What I have written, I have written........., but it ain't necessarily so.

Ulan
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Re: Did the oil alabaster cost more than the price of Jesus?

Post by Ulan » Sat Jun 30, 2018 5:32 am

Martin Klatt wrote:
Sat Jun 30, 2018 4:33 am
In GMark the jar of perfume is ἐπάνω δηναρίων τριακοσίων, meaning over 300 denarii. As I have shown in another thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2963&start=10 , this information was used by the author of GMatthew to calculate the traitor's wage of Judas at 30 pieces of silver, his share of the worth of the jar being 1/12 of the whole.
I agree with the answer Ben gave there: The 30 pieces of silver are from Zechariah 11:

"7 So, on behalf of the sheep merchants, I became the shepherd of the flock doomed to slaughter. I took two staffs; one I named Favor, the other I named Unity, and I tended the sheep. 8 In one month I disposed of the three shepherds, for I had become impatient with them, and they also detested me. 9 So I said, “I will not be your shepherd. What is to die, let it die; what is to be destroyed, let it be destroyed; and let those that are left devour the flesh of one another!” 10 I took my staff Favor and broke it, annulling the covenant that I had made with all the peoples. 11 So it was annulled on that day, and the sheep merchants, who were watching me, knew that it was the word of the Lord. 12 I then said to them, “If it seems right to you, give me my wages; but if not, keep them.” So they weighed out as my wages thirty shekels of silver. 13 Then the Lord said to me, “Throw it into the treasury”[a]—this lordly price at which I was valued by them. So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them into the treasury, in the house of the Lord. 14 Then I broke my second staff Unity, annulling the family ties between Judah and Israel."

This makes sense in this context, as the idea behind those 30 shekels is the same: it's a low value.

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