The Paradigmatic Rhetoric of Paul's Seven Authentic Letters

[beowulf]

Hi PhilosopherJay,

You say “in ancient time, myths were constantly changed” and I must agree with you. Time modifies not only the physical characteristics of human society, but also it also modifies its deliberation about the “spiritual world” – [ I cannot find a better way of stressing the global nature of this change]— The Christian religion is the object of the same evolutionary process that keeps changing our world.

I will not comment on your understanding of specific epistles since this was not the purpose of the OP., as I understood it

[Blood]

The paradigmatic rhetorical structure between the letters show them to be definitely not spontaneous letters responding to actual events, but they are altogether a kind of single power-point type presentation. The presentation could be named "Good Churches and Bad Churches and how Paul Might Have Handled them".

Warmly,
Jay Raskin

Jay, do you think there's some intended correspondence between Jesus writing or dictating seven letters to the church angels in various cities in Revelation, and Paul also writing or dictating the same number of letters to churches?

[MrMacSon]

^^ I'd say

The Christian religion is the object of the same evolutionary process that has been changing our view of our world.

[Bernard Muller]

Any religion follows an evolutionary process. Paul was in the middle of that big time.
According to my research, Paul wrote at least 14 letters (1 Cor, 2 Cor & Php are, for each, a combination of three separate letters. One "lost" letter is also mentioned in 1 Corinthians).
Cordially, Bernard

[PhilosopherJay]

Hi Blood,

Good question. Wikipedia gives this information about the seven churches in revelation:

Ephesus (Revelation 2:1-7) - the church that had forsaken its first love (2:4).
Smyrna (Revelation 2:8-11) - the church that would suffer persecution (2:10).
Pergamum (Revelation 2:12-17) - the church that needed to repent (2:16).
Thyatira (Revelation 2:18-29) - the church that had a false prophetess (2:20).
Sardis (Revelation 3:1-6) - the church that had fallen asleep (3:2).
Philadelphia (Revelation 3:7-13) - the church that had endured patiently (3:10).
Laodicea (Revelation 3:14-22) - the church that was lukewarm and insipid (to God) (3:16).

My list of Pauline letters only includes four churches
Ephesus - not founded by Paul, Good Church
Thessaloniki (2 letters) - founded by Paul, Good Church
Corinth (2 letters) - founded by Paul, Bad Church
Galatia - not founded by Paul, Bad Church

The fact that both lists begin with Ephesus shows some connection. The fact that nothing else is really the same indicates that the writer wasn't copying any Formula from Revelation. Also note that Revelation has Ephesus as a bad church. If he was really working from Revelation, he probably would not have made Ephesus a good church.

I think it is interesting that Paul, allegedly from Antioch in Asia Minor, does not found the two churches in Asia Minor that he writes to. Instead, the letters have him founding the good church in Thessaloniki in Greece and the bad church in Corinth. It makes one strongly suspect that the writer was from Thessaloniki. The best scenario I can come up with for this is that he knew of a church/synagogue in Corinth that was claiming to be founded by Paul. He wants to counter the influence of the Corinth Church by showing that the Corinth Church might have been founded by Paul, but that they broke from Paul. At the same time he wants to match the Corinthian Church's claim that Corinth was founded by Paul by saying that the Thessalonikian Church was also really founded by Paul. Up to this time, apparently Apollo was given credit for founding the Thessalonikian Church. It is a nice rhetorical move to perhaps undermine a Corinthian group within the Thessalonikian Church.

Warmly,

Jay Raskin

The paradigmatic rhetorical structure between the letters show them to be definitely not spontaneous letters responding to actual events, but they are altogether a kind of single power-point type presentation. The presentation could be named "Good Churches and Bad Churches and how Paul Might Have Handled them".

Warmly,
Jay Raskin

Jay, do you think there's some intended correspondence between Jesus writing or dictating seven letters to the church angels in various cities in Revelation, and Paul also writing or dictating the same number of letters to churches?

[robert j]

Hi Jay,

There are so very many claims you have made about Paul's letters with which I do not agree. But, for now, would you demonstrate how Paul's letters support your two statements that I have cited below. And could you please stick to the five letters of Paul addressed to his communities that are considered authentic by the vast majority of critical scholars and historians (1 Thessalonians, Galatians, 1 and 2 Corinthians, and Philippians).

robert j.

Jay wrote ---

Galatia - not founded by Paul ….

… apparently Apollo was given credit for founding the Thessalonikian Church.

[beowulf]

And Romans
German scholar Ferdinand Christian Baur accepted only four of the letters bearing Paul's name as genuine, which he called the Hauptebriefe (Romans, 1 & 2 Corinthians, and Galatians).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorship ... e_epistles

Please. Please let us remember the Hauptebriefe

Hauptbriefe, main letters

https://archive.org/details/MN41962ucmf_0

[robert j]

Hi beowulf,

If you were adding Romans to the letters I listed, I specified letters written to his communities. Romans does not fit that list.

robert j.

[beowulf]

Hi beowulf,

If you were adding Romans to the letters I listed, I specified letters written to his communities. Romans does not fit that list.

robert j.

Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa

I was thinking of the main letters.

[robert j]

Hi Jay,

In order to avoid the possibility of getting hung-up on lists --- when providing evidence from Paul's letters to support your two claims that I cited earlier today --- please avail yourself of all seven of the letters that are considered authentic by the vast majority of critical scholars and historians (1 Thessalonians, Galatians, 1 and 2 Corinthians, Philippians, Romans and Philemon).

robert j.