Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

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Giuseppe
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Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:13 am

I think that the second visit to Jerusalem is more probably genuine than the first visit to Jerusalem by Paul. But what I wonder if that, even if the first visit to Jerusalem was an interpolation, even so it doesn't reveal no historicist trace, since "brothers of Lord" seems to be (considering 1:19 as an interpolation) merely a cultic title in the same mind of the interpolator. So I wonder if the Pillars claimed that title for themselves. More precisely, if being a "Brother of Lord" was a direct corollary of the being a "Pillar".

In this connection, it is curious that Hegesippus put on mouth of the his invented James "the Just" ("Just" as the creator hated by Marcion) the words about an enigmatic "Gate of Jesus". Now, a gate should have two Pillars. Think about the two Pillars of Hercules: their function is precisely that of a gate.

The problem with this view is that Paul talks about three "so-called Pillars" and not about two Pillars (for a presumed Gate of Jesus).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:20 am

If James and John are the two Pillars of a presumed Gate of Jesus (afterall, they were the two boanerges), then Peter may be the first to enter by that gate. Or, the first to open or close that gate, allegory of the celestial passage to Jesus in heaven.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:28 am

So the question is: which the probability that the following items are purely coincidential:

1) Paul talks about "so-called Pillars" in Galatians 2
2) Peter is the celestial door-keeper in Matthew
3) James talks about a Gate of Jesus in Hegesippus
4) James and John are put on the gate of the Temple when Jesus expelled the buyers out of the Temple court in a gospel.
5) James is called "Brother of the Lord" in Gal 1:19.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Ben C. Smith » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:06 am

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Giuseppe
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:15 am

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:06 am
Jambspillars.
I don't think that you think that your difference works also for the Hercules's Pillars.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Ben C. Smith » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:23 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:15 am
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:06 am
Jambspillars.
I don't think that you think that your difference works also for the Hercules's Pillars.
The pillars of Hercules are not even the same word in Greek.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:30 am

Ben C. Smith wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:23 am
Giuseppe wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:15 am
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:06 am
Jambspillars.
I don't think that you think that your difference works also for the Hercules's Pillars.
The pillars of Hercules are not even the same word in Greek.
mmm I think it s a false difference. For example, the 3 Pillars could be called so as a kind of spiritual channels between heaven and earth. But so was also Atlas bearer of the vault of heaven. And Atlas is a variant of Hercules. And Hercules is the Melkart of old Libanon. I say this only to make more plausible my hypothesis, not with some strong conviction.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Ben C. Smith » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:35 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:30 am
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:23 am
Giuseppe wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:15 am
Ben C. Smith wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:06 am
Jambspillars.
I don't think that you think that your difference works also for the Hercules's Pillars.
The pillars of Hercules are not even the same word in Greek.
mmm I think it s a false difference.
The point is that no Greek speaker was going to hear the term στῦλος in Galatians 2.9 (or anywhere else) and automatically think of doors or gates. Did you read the LSJ entry? You are on the wrong path here.
Last edited by Ben C. Smith on Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:39 am

Ok but also the Pillars of Hercules were originally "support for something on top of the pillar", insofar they were φαλλοί of the god Melkart/Hercules. Only later they were considered the pillars of a gate.

So could something of similar be happened also for the Pillars of Galatians?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Did the pillars claim to be "Brothers of the Lord"?

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:43 am

https://books.google.it/books?id=3uwUAA ... es&f=false

Quote from the link: the phallic meaning of the columns before the gate of Semitic temples.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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