David Bentley Hart’s NT Translation "Recaptures the Awkward, Multivoiced Power of the Original."

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iskander
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Re: David Bentley Hart’s NT Translation "Recaptures the Awkward, Multivoiced Power of the Original."

Post by iskander »

Richmond Lattimore,The New Testament
ISBN 9780865475343
North Point Press. New York
Romans 9:4-5

They are Israelites. Theirs is the adoption and the glory, theirs the covenants and the giving of the law and the service and the promises.

From them are the fathers, from them in the way of the flesh, the Christ, who is over all, God to be praised forever. Amen

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Oford Study Bible , Romans 9:4-5
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iskander
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Re: David Bentley Hart’s NT Translation "Recaptures the Awkward, Multivoiced Power of the Original."

Post by iskander »

iskander wrote: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:16 am Richmond Lattimore,The New Testament
ISBN 9780865475343
North Point Press. New York
Romans 9:4-5

They are Israelites. Theirs is the adoption and the glory, theirs the covenants and the giving of the law and the service and the promises.

From them are the fathers, from them in the way of the flesh, the Christ, who is over all, God to be praised forever. Amen

viewtopic.php?t=2499
Oford Study Bible , Romans 9:4-5
attachment:r9.PNG
4 They are Israelites, adopted as God’s sons; the visible presence, and the covenant, and the giving of the law, and the Temple worship, and the promises, are their inheritance;

5 the patriarchs belong to them, and theirs is the human stock from which Christ came; Christ, who rules as God over all things, blessed for ever, Amen.[2]

Footnote [2] ‘Christ, who rules as God’; some commentators would translate, ‘Blessed be God who is above all things, for ever’, making this a distinct sentence; but they have not been able to suggest any plausible grounds for the intrusion of this irrelevant apostrophe, and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible.
http://www.newadvent.org/bible/rom009.htm
iskander
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Re: David Bentley Hart’s NT Translation "Recaptures the Awkward, Multivoiced Power of the Original."

Post by iskander »

The translation of http://www.newadvent.org/bible/rom009.htm does not say Chtist is God. It says " who rules as God "--- as Mohamed, the Pope and others do.

Footnote [2] ‘Christ, who rules as God’; some commentators would translate, ‘Blessed be God who is above all things, for ever’, making this a distinct sentence; but they have not been able to suggest any plausible grounds for the intrusion of this irrelevant apostrophe, and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible.


Why does this footnote asserts that " and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible."?
I would be grateful If anyone explains why " and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible."
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: David Bentley Hart’s NT Translation "Recaptures the Awkward, Multivoiced Power of the Original."

Post by Ben C. Smith »

iskander wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:27 am The translation of http://www.newadvent.org/bible/rom009.htm does not say Chtist is God. It says " who rules as God "--- as Mohamed, the Pope and others do.

Footnote [2] ‘Christ, who rules as God’; some commentators would translate, ‘Blessed be God who is above all things, for ever’, making this a distinct sentence; but they have not been able to suggest any plausible grounds for the intrusion of this irrelevant apostrophe, and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible.


Why does this footnote asserts that " and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible."?
I would be grateful If anyone explains why " and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible."
He is probably arguing against the suggestion that ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας ("God who is over all things be blessed unto the ages") is its own independent sentence. The word order he is pointing out, if that is the case, is the placement of the relative clause (ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων) before its antecedent (θεὸς), whereas antecedents usually precede the relative clauses which modify them. (You will notice that in my translation I had to place "God" before "who is over all things" in order to make it come out right.) Going just from memory here, the placement of the antecedent after its modifying clause is quite rare, though I believe it is not completely unheard of. Hence "almost impossible," I guess, instead of "impossible."
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iskander
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Re: David Bentley Hart’s NT Translation "Recaptures the Awkward, Multivoiced Power of the Original."

Post by iskander »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 6:15 am
iskander wrote: Fri Nov 16, 2018 3:27 am The translation of http://www.newadvent.org/bible/rom009.htm does not say Chtist is God. It says " who rules as God "--- as Mohamed, the Pope and others do.

Footnote [2] ‘Christ, who rules as God’; some commentators would translate, ‘Blessed be God who is above all things, for ever’, making this a distinct sentence; but they have not been able to suggest any plausible grounds for the intrusion of this irrelevant apostrophe, and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible.


Why does this footnote asserts that " and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible."?
I would be grateful If anyone explains why " and the order of words in the Greek makes it almost impossible."
He is probably arguing against the suggestion that ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας ("God who is over all things be blessed unto the ages") is its own independent sentence. The word order he is pointing out, if that is the case, is the placement of the relative clause (ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων) before its antecedent (θεὸς), whereas antecedents usually precede the relative clauses which modify them. (You will notice that in my translation I had to place "God" before "who is over all things" in order to make it come out right.) Going just from memory here, the placement of the antecedent after its modifying clause is quite rare, though I believe it is not completely unheard of. Hence "almost impossible," I guess, instead of "impossible."
Thank you very much.
iskander
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Re: David Bentley Hart’s NT Translation "Recaptures the Awkward, Multivoiced Power of the Original."

Post by iskander »

Romans, chapter 9
USCCB
United States conference of Catholic Bishops
5 theirs the patriarchs, and from them, according to the flesh, is the Messiah. God who is over all* be blessed forever. Amen.d

* [9:5] Some editors punctuate this verse differently and prefer the translation, “Of whom is Christ according to the flesh, who is God over all.” However, Paul’s point is that God who is over all aimed to use Israel, which had been entrusted with every privilege, in outreach to the entire world through the Messiah.
http://www.usccb.org/bible/romans/9
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