The closing chapters of 1 Clement

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Lev
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The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by Lev » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:17 am

Hi all,

I notice that the Roberts-Donaldson translation of 1 Clement (found on EarlyChristianWritings.com) concludes at chapter 59, whereas Lightfoot and Hoole's goes all the way to chapter 65.

I think I recall reading somewhere that some have proposed the final 5 chapters are a later interpolation, and that was why Roberts-Donaldson omitted them, but I can't locate where the argument is made, or if it's widely shared opinion today.

Can anyone shed some light on this please?

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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by DCHindley » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:49 pm

Lev wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:17 am
Hi all,

I notice that the Roberts-Donaldson translation of 1 Clement (found on EarlyChristianWritings.com) concludes at chapter 59, whereas Lightfoot and Hoole's goes all the way to chapter 65.

I think I recall reading somewhere that some have proposed the final 5 chapters are a later interpolation, and that was why Roberts-Donaldson omitted them, but I can't locate where the argument is made, or if it's widely shared opinion today.

Can anyone shed some light on this please?
I believe that you will find the complete 65 chapters in vol 10 (printed, vol 9 online).

You got to remember that these works came out in series, to which you subscribed and got by mail. There were the Ante Nicene Christian Library (ANCL) published by Presbyterians in Edinburgh, Scotland, in 24 thin volumes between 1867 & 1872. For the most part, the works contained in them were translated and edited by Alexander Roberts & James Donaldson. I don't think that the 2nd Epistle/Homily was on the radar of these Presbyterians ... yet. I think this translation only went to chapter 59, as there were no Greek mss longer than that yet known to the West.

Then, another Protestant group in the USA decided to edit & reprint the whole series in the US as the Ante Nicene Fathers (ANF) series in 9 volumes (including an Index volume). It also came out in serial format, received through the mail. The index volume (#9 printed) is not to be found at all on the internet (where volume 9 is really print volume 10 below). This enterprise went on under the general editorship of A Cleveland Coxe (Roberts & Donaldson were likely in their graves by then), between 1885 and 1887. It went through 4 editions (as a packaged set) with the original 9 volumes. FWIW, the epistle of Clement in Volume 1 was a reprint of the 1867 translation of the 59 chapter Epistle of Clement in ANCL.

Finally, in 1896, the series' 5th edition (as a set) added a "Supplemental" 10th volume (#9 on the Internet), under the general editorship of Allan Menzies, and published by the same outfit. This contained mostly Christian Pseudepigrapha. However, it also had a fresh 65 chapter translation of the Epistle of Clement, and also a second "epistle" of Clement, translated by John Keith. The translator admits "2nd Clement" was probably just a later homily (sermonette) that was mis-attributed to Clement of Rome in Medieval times.

So, head spinning yet? :crazy:

DCH

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Lev
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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by Lev » Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:14 am

Thanks very much for this insight DCH - really appreciated.

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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by andrewcriddle » Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:03 am

Codex Hierosolymitanus which contains the full Greek text of 1 and 2 Clement was discovered in 1873 and the Clementine texts published 2 years later.

Andrew Criddle

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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by Stuart » Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:14 pm

andrewcriddle wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:03 am
Codex Hierosolymitanus which contains the full Greek text of 1 and 2 Clement was discovered in 1873 and the Clementine texts published 2 years later.

Andrew Criddle
It is dated precisely to 1056 AD (11th century) by a scribe named Leo.

A full list is here
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manus ... etter1.htm

Dating is a little vague on many of the manuscripts, I am satisfied Codex Alexandrius is after the middle of the 5th century due to it's reference to Euthalius, Bishop of Sulci, but it could be even later, perhaps well into the 6th century. But I'm OK with the consensus 450-500 AD date as reasonable, although we need a better handle on the later date when reference to Euthalius fell out of use to put a true upper bound.

There is a Coptic manuscript which reputedly is a 4th century Papyrus MS. orient, fol. 3065 from the White monastery of Shenute. I am not certain of the dating method for this work. And everyone repeats the same phrase to describe it. This tells me it has not been reexamined for perhaps over one hundred years. Anyone who can shed light on that Manuscript, especially anything done after 1910 would be greatly helpful.

The earliest manuscript does not ascribe an author but instead entitles it "The Letter from the Romans to the Corinthians". This suggests the attachment of the Clement legend to this manuscript happened sometime between the late 4th century and the middle of the 5th century.
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift

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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by andrewcriddle » Thu Aug 16, 2018 8:42 am

Stuart wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 2:14 pm
andrewcriddle wrote:
Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:03 am
Codex Hierosolymitanus which contains the full Greek text of 1 and 2 Clement was discovered in 1873 and the Clementine texts published 2 years later.

Andrew Criddle
It is dated precisely to 1056 AD (11th century) by a scribe named Leo.

A full list is here
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/manus ... etter1.htm

Dating is a little vague on many of the manuscripts, I am satisfied Codex Alexandrius is after the middle of the 5th century due to it's reference to Euthalius, Bishop of Sulci, but it could be even later, perhaps well into the 6th century. But I'm OK with the consensus 450-500 AD date as reasonable, although we need a better handle on the later date when reference to Euthalius fell out of use to put a true upper bound.

There is a Coptic manuscript which reputedly is a 4th century Papyrus MS. orient, fol. 3065 from the White monastery of Shenute. I am not certain of the dating method for this work. And everyone repeats the same phrase to describe it. This tells me it has not been reexamined for perhaps over one hundred years. Anyone who can shed light on that Manuscript, especially anything done after 1910 would be greatly helpful.

The earliest manuscript does not ascribe an author but instead entitles it "The Letter from the Romans to the Corinthians". This suggests the attachment of the Clement legend to this manuscript happened sometime between the late 4th century and the middle of the 5th century.
The attribution to Clement (of Rome) is found in Clement of Alexandria http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/t ... book4.html
Moreover, in the Epistle to the Corinthians, the Apostle Clement also, drawing a picture of the Gnostic, says: "For who that has sojourned among you has not proved your perfect and firm faith? and has not admired your sound and gentle piety? and has not celebrated the munificent style of your hospitality? and has not felicitated your complete and sure knowledge? For ye did all things impartially, and walked in the ordinances of God;" and so forth.
Andrew Criddle

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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by Stuart » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:18 am

Andrew,

The Church Fathers are far less reliable than any other sources. I have looked at Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen and Justin and found them all to have problems with significant amounts of later or interpolated material. I suspect the same is true with Clement, but I admit I have not yet attempted to tackle or list his issues of question - what I do know is he has an approach and focus on issues that do not fit the 2nd century, but fit a much later era. Much as I think the NT is generally dated as much as a century too early for many books, I think the same and then some for many of the church fathers.

I am most suspicious of materials that are either pseudo biographical or autobiographical or which which address the issues of martyrdom and Canon. It is these interwoven pseudo autobiographical materials which are used most frequently to date the Church Fathers.But they are questionable legends, and no more reliable that the headers of NT letters. Almost all are later back stories invented and assigned to probably anonymous tracks. And our manuscripts for the church fathers are almost all uniformly late, as in the 10th to 14th centuries.

I will note Clement's commentary. But I am not ready to accept it as either from whom it is claimed, as it could well have come from a later editor who produced the collection in the middle ages (e.g., Xiphilinus hand in Dio's work).

Note: this blind acceptance of Church Father legends as fact is one of the worst practices in this field, and is in serious need of reform.
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift

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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by Peter Kirby » Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:36 pm

Lev wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:17 am
Hi all,

I notice that the Roberts-Donaldson translation of 1 Clement (found on EarlyChristianWritings.com) concludes at chapter 59, whereas Lightfoot and Hoole's goes all the way to chapter 65.

I think I recall reading somewhere that some have proposed the final 5 chapters are a later interpolation, and that was why Roberts-Donaldson omitted them, but I can't locate where the argument is made, or if it's widely shared opinion today.

Can anyone shed some light on this please?
Is it more than versification?

Lightfoot
1Clem 65:1
Now send ye back speedily unto us our messengers Claudius Ephebus
and Valerius Bito, together with Fortunatus also, in peace and with
joy, to the end that they may the more quickly report the peace and
concord which is prayed for and earnestly desired by us, that we also
may the more speedily rejoice over your good order.

1Clem 65:2
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you and with all men in
all places who have been called by God and through Him, through whom
be glory and honor, power and greatness and eternal dominion, unto
Him, from the ages past and forever and ever. Amen.
Roberts-Donaldson
CHAPTER 59 -- THE CORINTHIANS ARE EXHORTED SPEEDILY TO SEND BACK WORD THAT PEACE HAS BEEN RESTORED. THE BENEDICTION.

Send back speedily to us in peace and with joy these our messengers to you: Claudius Ephebus and Valerius Bito, with Fortunatus: that they may the sooner announce to us the peace and harmony we so earnestly desire and long for [among you], and that we may the more quickly rejoice over the good order re-established among you. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, and with all everywhere that are the called of God through Him, by whom be to Him glory, honour, power, majesty, and eternal dominion, from everlasting to everlasting. Amen.
Very curious -- let me know if you find actual differences of the contents between the translations.
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by DCHindley » Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:21 pm

The translator of ANF 10 (9 on the internet) explained is thusly:
Additional Introduction [to 1st Clement].

Towards the close of 1875, at Constantinople, Philotheus Bryennius, Metropolitan of Serrae, published the first complete edition of the epistles ascribed to Clement. This he was enabled to do by the discovery of a ms. in the library of the Holy Sepulchre at Fanari in Constantinople. This ms., of vellum, consists of one hundred and twenty leaves in small octavo, nearly seven and a half inches in length and six in breadth. The ms. bears the date 1056, and was written by one Leo. Its contents are:
1. Chrysostom’s Synopsis of the Old Testament (the New also being included in the
title).
2. Epistle of Barnabas.
3. Clement to the Corinthians I.
4. Clement to the Corinthians II.
5. Teaching of the Twelve Apostles.
6. Ignatian Epistles.

The ms. is written with comparative accuracy and clearness. Internal evidence seems to establish its independent value; e.g., words carelessly omitted in the Codex Alexandrinus are found in this ms. It also supplies the lacunae, notably chapters 57 (concluding sentence) — 63 inclusive of the first Epistle and chapters 12 (concluding sentences) — 20, being the close of the second Epistle. Harnack seems to prove that the new ms. is as complete as the original Alexandrian.

The lacuna of the first Epistle consists mainly of a prayer, the writer somewhat abruptly passing from the oratio obliqua to the oratio recta. The prayer is indicative of intense earnestness and emotion rather than official authority. It is marked by wealth of quotation, especially from the Septuagint. Perhaps, too, the nature of the sufferings referred to in the opening chapters may be inferred from the petitions of this prayer.

In the Notes the old ms. is indicated by A, the recently discovered ms. by I.
The texts, when compared (I only gave chaps 55 to end of each) reveals this:

Clement of Rome, Ep. to the Corinthians (tr. Roberts & Donaldson, ANCL Volume 1, 1867 = ANF vol. 1, 1885)
Clement of Rome, 1st Ep. To the Corinthians (tr John Keith, ANF Volume 10, 1896)
Chapter LV (55). To bring forward some examples from among the heathen: Many kings and princes, in times of pestilence, when they had been instructed by an oracle, have given themselves up to death, in order that by their own blood they might deliver their fellow-citizens [from destruction]. Many have gone forth from their own cities, that so sedition might be brought to an end within them. We know many among ourselves who have given themselves up to bonds, in order that they might ransom others. Many, too, have surrendered themselves to slavery, that with the price243 which they received for themselves, they might provide food for others. Many women also, being strengthened by the grace of God, have performed numerous manly exploits. The blessed Judith, when her city was besieged, asked of the elders permission to go forth into the camp of the strangers; and, exposing herself to danger, she went out for the love which she bare to her country and people then besieged; and the Lord delivered Holofernes into the hands of a woman.244 Esther also, being perfect in faith, exposed herself to no less danger, in order to deliver the twelve tribes of Israel from impending destruction. For with fasting and humiliation she entreated the everlasting God, who seeth all things; and He, perceiving the humility of her spirit, delivered the people for whose sake she had encountered peril.245. Chapter LV (55). To bring forward some examples4293 from among the heathen: Many kings and princes, in times of pestilence, when they had been instructed by an oracle, have given themselves up to death, in order that by their own blood they might deliver their fellow-citizens [from destruction]. Many have gone forth from their own cities, that so sedition might be brought to an end within them. We know many among ourselves who have given themselves up to bonds, in order that they might ransom others. Many, too, have surrendered themselves to slavery, that with the price4294 which they received for themselves, they might provide food for others. Many women also, being strengthened by the grace of God, have performed numerous manly exploits. The blessed Judith, when her city was besieged, asked of the elders permission to go forth into the camp of the strangers; and, exposing herself to danger, she went out for the love which she bare to her country and people then besieged; and the Lord delivered Holofernes into the hands of a woman.4295 Esther also, being perfect in faith, exposed herself to no less danger, in order to deliver the twelve tribes of Israel from impending destruction. For with fasting and humiliation she entreated the everlasting4296 God, who seeth all things; and He, perceiving the humility of her spirit, delivered the people for whose sake she had encountered peril.4297
Chapter LVI (56). Let us then also pray for those who have fallen into any sin, that meekness and humility may be given to them, so that they may submit, not unto us, but to the will of God. For in this way they shall secure a fruitful and perfect remembrance from us, with sympathy for them, both in our prayers to God, and our mention of them to the saints.246 Let us receive correction, beloved, on account of which no one should feel displeased. Those exhortations by which we admonish one another are both good [in themselves] and highly profitable, for they tend to unite247 us to the will of God. For thus saith the holy Word: “The Lord hath severely chastened me, yet hath not given me over to death.”248 “For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth.”249 “The righteous,” saith it, “shall chasten me in mercy, and reprove me; but let not the oil of sinners make fat my head.”250 And again he saith, “Blessed is the man whom the Lord reproveth, and reject not thou the warning of the Almighty. For He causes sorrow, and again restores [to gladness]; He woundeth, and His hands make whole. He shall deliver thee in six troubles, yea, in the seventh no evil shall touch thee. In famine He shall rescue thee from death, and in war He shall free thee from the power251 of the sword. From the scourge of the tongue will He hide thee, and thou shalt not fear when evil cometh. Thou shalt laugh at the unrighteous and the wicked, and shalt not be afraid of the beasts of the field. For the wild beasts shall be at peace with thee: then shalt thou know that thy house shall be in peace, and the habitation of thy tabernacle shall not fail.252 Thou shall know also that thy seed shall be great, and thy children like the grass of the field. And thou shall come to the grave like ripened corn which is reaped in its season, or like a heap of the threshing-floor which is gathered together at the proper time.”253 Ye see, beloved, that protection is afforded to those that are chastened of the Lord; for since God is good, He corrects us, that we may be admonished by His holy chastisement. Chapter LVI (56). Let us then also pray for those who have fallen into any sin, that meekness and humility may be given to them, so that they may submit, not unto us, but to the will of God. For in this way they shall secure a fruitful and perfect remembrance from us, with sympathy for them, both in our prayers to God, and our mention of them to the saints.4298 Let us receive correction, beloved, on account of which no one should feel displeased. Those exhortations by which we admonish one another are both good [in themselves], and highly profitable, for they tend to unite4299 us to the will of God. For thus saith the holy Word: “The Lord hath severely chastened me, yet hath not given me over to death.”4300 “For whom the Lord loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth.”4301 “The righteous,”4302 saith it, “shall chasten me in mercy, and reprove me; but let not the oil of sinners make fat my head.”4303 And again he saith, “Blessed is the man whom the Lord reproveth, and reject not thou the warning of the Almighty. For He causes sorrow, and again restores [to gladness]; He woundeth, and His hands make whole. He shall deliver thee in six troubles, yea, in the seventh no evil shall touch thee. In famine He shall rescue thee from death, and in war He shall free thee from the power4304 of the sword. From the scourge of the tongue will He hide thee, and thou shalt not fear when evil cometh. Thou shalt laugh at the unrighteous and the wicked, and shalt not be afraid of the beasts of the field. For the wild beasts shall be at peace with thee: then shalt thou know that thy house shall be in peace, and the habitation of thy tabernacle shall not fail.4305 Thou shalt know also that thy seed shall be great, and thy children like the grass of the field. And thou shalt come to the grave like ripened corn which is reaped in its season, or like a heap of the threshing-floor which is gathered together at the proper time.”4306 Ye see, beloved, that4307 “protection is afforded to those that are chastened of the Lord; for since God is good,4308 He corrects us, that we may be admonished”4309 by His holy chastisement.
Chapter LVII (57).Ye therefore, who laid the foundation of this sedition, submit yourselves to the presbyters, and receive correction so as to repent, bending the knees of your hearts. Learn to be subject, laying aside the proud and arrogant self-confidence of your tongue. For it is better for you that ye should occupy254 a humble but honourable place in the flock of Christ, than that, being highly exalted, ye should be cast out from the hope of His people.255 For thus speaketh all-virtuous Wisdom:256 “Behold, I will bring forth to you the words of My Spirit, and I will teach you My speech. Since I called, and ye did not hear; I held forth My words, and ye regarded not, but set at naught My counsels, and yielded not at My reproofs; therefore I too will laugh at your destruction; yea, I will rejoice when ruin cometh upon you, and when sudden confusion overtakes you, when overturning presents itself like a tempest, or when tribulation and oppression fall upon you. For it shall come to pass, that when ye call upon Me, I will not hear you; the wicked shall seek Me, and they shall not find Me. For they hated wisdom, and did not choose the fear of the Lord; nor would they listen to My counsels, but despised My reproofs. Wherefore they shall eat the fruits of their own way, and they shall be filled with their own ungodliness.” …257 Chapter LVII (57). Ye therefore, who laid the foundation of this sedition, submit yourselves to the presbyters, and receive correction so as to repent, bending the knees of your hearts. Learn to be subject, laying aside the proud and arrogant self-confidence of your tongue. For it is better for you that ye should occupy4310 a humble but honourable place in the flock of Christ, than that, being highly exalted, ye should be cast out from the hope of His people.4311 For thus speaketh all-virtuous Wisdom: “Behold, I will bring forth to you the words of my Spirit, and I will teach you my speech. Since I called, and ye did not hear; I held forth my words, and ye regarded not, but set at naught my counsels, and yielded not at my reproofs; therefore I too will laugh at your destruction; yea, I will rejoice when ruin cometh upon you, and when sudden confusion overtakes you, when overturning presents itself like a tempest, or when tribulation and oppression4312 fall upon you. For it shall come to pass, that when ye call upon me, I will not hear you; the wicked shall seek me, and they shall not find me. For they hated wisdom, and did not choose the fear of the Lord; nor would they listen to my counsels, but despised my reproofs. Wherefore they shall eat the fruits of their own way, and they shall be filled4313 with their own ungodliness.4314 … For, in punishment for the wrongs which they practised upon babes, shall they be slain, and inquiry will be death to the ungodly; but he that heareth me shall rest in hope and be undisturbed by the fear of any evil.”
Chapter LVIII (58). Let us, therefore, flee from the warning threats pronounced by Wisdom on the disobedient, and yield submission to His all-holy and glorious name, that we may stay our trust upon the most hallowed name of His majesty. Receive our counsel, and ye shall be without repentance. For, as God liveth, and as the Lord Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost live,—both the faith and hope of the elect, he who in lowliness of mind, with instant gentleness, and without repentance hath observed the ordinances and appointments given by God—the same shall obtain a place and name in the number of those who are being saved through Jesus Christ, through whom is glory to Him for ever and ever. Amen.
Chapter LIX (59). If, however, any shall disobey the words spoken by Him through us, let them know that they will involve themselves in transgression and serious danger; but we shall be innocent of this sin, and, instant in prayer and supplication, shall desire that the Creator of all preserve unbroken the computed number of His elect in the whole world through His beloved Son Jesus Christ, through whom He called us from darkness to light, from ignorance to knowledge of the glory of His name, our hope resting on Thy name which is primal cause of every creature,—having opened the eyes of our heart to the knowledge of Thee, who alone “dost rest highest among the highest, holy among the holy,”4315 who “layest low the insolence of the haughty,”4316 who “destroyest the calculations of the heathen,”4317 who “settest the low on high and bringest low the exalted;”4318 who “makest rich and makest poor,”4319 who “killest and makest to live,”4320 only Benefactor of spirits and God of all flesh,4321 who beholdest the depths, the eye-witness of human works, the help of those in danger, the Saviour of those in despair, the Creator and Guardian of every spirit, who multipliest nations upon earth, and from all madest choice of those who love Thee through Jesus Christ, Thy beloved Son, through whom Thou didst instruct, sanctify, honour us. We would have Thee, Lord, to prove our help and succour. Those of us in affliction save, on the lowly take pity; the fallen raise; upon those in need arise; the sick4322 heal; the wandering ones of Thy people turn; fill the hungry; redeem those of us in bonds; raise up those that are weak; comfort the faint-hearted; let all the nations know that Thou art God alone and Jesus Christ Thy Son, and we are Thy people and the sheep of Thy pasture.
Chapter LX (60). Thou didst make to appear the enduring fabric of the world by the works of Thy hand; Thou, Lord, didst create the earth on which we dwell,—Thou, who art faithful in all generations, just in judgments, wonderful in strength and majesty, with wisdom creating and with understanding fixing the things which were made, who art good among them that are being saved4323 and faithful among them whose trust is in Thee; O merciful and Compassionate One, forgive us our iniquities and offences and transgressions and trespasses. Reckon not every sin of Thy servants and handmaids, but Thou wilt purify us with the purification of Thy truth; and direct our steps that we may walk in holiness of heart and do what is good and well-pleasing in Thy sight and in the sight of our rulers. Yea, Lord, make Thy face to shine upon us for good in peace, that we may be shielded by Thy mighty hand and delivered from every sin by Thine uplifted arm, and deliver us from those who hate us wrongfully. Give concord and peace to us and all who dwell upon the earth, even as Thou gavest to our fathers, when they called upon Thee in faith and truth, submissive as we are to Thine almighty and all-excellent Name.
Chapter LXI (61). To our rulers and governors on the earth—to them Thou, Lord, gavest the power of the kingdom by Thy glorious and ineffable might, to the end that we may know the glory and honour given to them by Thee and be subject to them, in nought resisting Thy will; to them, Lord, give health, peace, concord, stability, that they may exercise the authority given to them without offence. For Thou, O heavenly Lord and King eternal, givest to the sons of men glory and honour and power over the things that are on the earth; do Thou, Lord, direct their counsel according to that which is good and well-pleasing in Thy sight, that, devoutly in peace and meekness exercising the power given them by Thee, they may find Thee propitious. O Thou, who only hast power to do these things and more abundant good with us, we praise Thee through the High Priest and Guardian of our souls Jesus Christ, through whom be glory and majesty to Thee both now and from generation to generation and for evermore. Amen.
Chapter LXII (62). Concerning the things pertaining to our religious observance which are most profitable for a life of goodness to those who would pursue a godly and righteous course, we have written to you, men and brethren, at sufficient length. For concerning faith and repentance and true love and continence and soberness and patience, we have touched upon every passage, putting you in mind that you ought in righteousness and truth and long-suffering to be well-pleasing4324 to Almighty God with holiness, being of one mind—not remembering evil—in love and peace with instant gentleness, even as also our fathers forementioned found favour by the humility of their thoughts towards the Father and God and Creator and all mankind. And of these things we put you in mind with the greater pleasure, since we were well assured that we were writing to men who were faithful and of highest repute and had peered into the oracles of the instruction of God.
Chapter LXIII (63). Right is it, therefore, to approach examples so good and so many, and submit the neck and fulfil the part of obedience, in order that, undisturbed by vain sedition, we may attain unto the goal set before us in truth wholly free from blame. Joy and gladness will ye afford us, if ye become obedient to the words written by us and through the Holy Spirit root out the lawless wrath of your jealousy according to the intercession which we have made for peace and unity in this letter. We have sent men faithful and discreet, whose conversation from youth to old age has been blameless amongst us,—the same shall be witnesses between you and us. This we have done, that ye may know that our whole concern has been and is that ye may be speedily at peace.
Chapter LVIII (58). May God, who seeth all things, and who is the Ruler of all spirits and the Lord of all flesh—who chose our Lord Jesus Christ and us through Him to be a peculiar258 people—grant to every soul that calleth upon His glorious and holy Name, faith, fear, peace, patience, longsuffering, self-control, purity, and sobriety, to the well-pleasing of His Name, through our High Priest and Protector, Jesus Christ, by whom be to Him glory, and majesty, and power, and honour, both now and for evermore. Amen. Chapter LXIV (64). May God, who seeth all things, and who is the Ruler of all spirits and the Lord of all flesh—who chose our Lord Jesus Christ and us through Him to be a peculiar4325 people—grant to every soul that calleth upon His glorious and holy name, faith, fear, peace, patience, long-suffering, self-control, purity, and sobriety, to the well-pleasing of His name, through our High Priest and Protector, Jesus Christ, by whom be to Him glory, and majesty, and power, and honour, both now and for evermore. Amen.
Chapter LIX (59). Send back speedily to us in peace and with joy these our messengers to you: Claudius Ephebus and Valerius Bito, with Fortunatus: that they may the sooner announce to us the peace and harmony we so earnestly desire and long for [among you], and that we may the more quickly rejoice over the good order re-established among you. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, and with all everywhere that are the called of God through Him, by whom be to Him glory, honour, power, majesty, and eternal dominion,259 from everlasting to everlasting.260 Amen.261 Chapter LXV (65). Send back speedily to us in peace and with joy these our messengers to you: Claudius Ephebus and Valerius Bito, with Fortunatus; that they may the sooner announce to us the peace and harmony we so earnestly desire and long for [among you], and that we may the more quickly rejoice over the good order re-established among you. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you, and with all everywhere that are the called of God through Him, by whom be to Him glory, honour, power, majesty, and eternal dominion,4326 from everlasting to everlasting.4327 Amen.

The translator of the 1867 translation (ch 58 & 59 in ANF vol. 1) had a ms (A) that he knew had a lacunae (a break in sense that suggests that some text had been lost of omitted) at the end of ch 57. The translator of 1896, using the newly discovered fuller ms (I) which had additional text between what the older translation had numbered 57 & 58, so the 1896 translation renumbered the chapters. Now, chapters 58-59 of the older translation become chapters 64 & 65 in the newer one. The recovered text is from the end of chapter 57 (there is still a lacunae there even in ms I) to chapter 63. This example is just at the end. The 1896 translator, as quoted above, indicates several other places where similar additional materials were found to be in the more recently discovered ms (I).

More head spinning stuff. :crazy:

DCH
Last edited by DCHindley on Sat Aug 18, 2018 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.

andrewcriddle
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Re: The closing chapters of 1 Clement

Post by andrewcriddle » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:52 am

Stuart wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 10:18 am
Andrew,

The Church Fathers are far less reliable than any other sources. I have looked at Irenaeus, Tertullian, Origen and Justin and found them all to have problems with significant amounts of later or interpolated material. I suspect the same is true with Clement, but I admit I have not yet attempted to tackle or list his issues of question - what I do know is he has an approach and focus on issues that do not fit the 2nd century, but fit a much later era. Much as I think the NT is generally dated as much as a century too early for many books, I think the same and then some for many of the church fathers.

I am most suspicious of materials that are either pseudo biographical or autobiographical or which which address the issues of martyrdom and Canon. It is these interwoven pseudo autobiographical materials which are used most frequently to date the Church Fathers.But they are questionable legends, and no more reliable that the headers of NT letters. Almost all are later back stories invented and assigned to probably anonymous tracks. And our manuscripts for the church fathers are almost all uniformly late, as in the 10th to 14th centuries.

I will note Clement's commentary. But I am not ready to accept it as either from whom it is claimed, as it could well have come from a later editor who produced the collection in the middle ages (e.g., Xiphilinus hand in Dio's work).

Note: this blind acceptance of Church Father legends as fact is one of the worst practices in this field, and is in serious need of reform.
Irenaeus attributes the letter to Clement
The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolic tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Soter having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.
Eusebius knew this passage from Irenaeus
8. Pothinus having died with the other martyrs in Gaul at ninety years of age, Irenæus succeeded him in the episcopate of the church at Lyons. We have learned that, in his youth, he was a hearer of Polycarp.

9. In the third book of his work Against Heresies he has inserted a list of the bishops of Rome, bringing it down as far as Eleutherus (whose times we are now considering), under whom he composed his work. He writes as follows:

1. The blessed apostles having founded and established the church, entrusted the office of the episcopate to Linus. Paul speaks of this Linus in his Epistles to Timothy. 2 Timothy 4:21

2. Anencletus succeeded him, and after Anencletus, in the third place from the apostles, Clement received the episcopate. He had seen and conversed with the blessed apostles, and their preaching was still sounding in his ears, and their tradition was still before his eyes. Nor was he alone in this, for many who had been taught by the apostles yet survived.

3. In the times of Clement, a serious dissension having arisen among the brethren in Corinth, the church of Rome sent a most suitable letter to the Corinthians, reconciling them in peace, renewing their faith, and proclaiming the doctrine lately received from the apostles.

4. A little farther on he says:

Evarestus succeeded Clement, and Alexander, Evarestus. Then Xystus, the sixth from the apostles, was appointed. After him Telesphorus, who suffered martyrdom gloriously; then Hyginus; then Pius; and after him Anicetus; Soter succeeded Anicetus; and now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, Eleutherus holds the office of bishop.

5. In the same order and succession the tradition in the Church and the preaching of the truth has descended from the apostles unto us.
(I'm avoiding any material known only from Eusebius or I would add more evidence)

It is possible that all this material is inauthentic but not IMO probable.

Andrew Criddle

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