and in Acts 14 after Paul had faith-healed a lame man, he is called Hermes -
Acts 14:12 (NIV) -
The reference to Clement in pseudo-DionysiusBen C. Smith wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:42 pmThe Clement from the Pauline letter has certainly been speculated to be identical with Clement of Rome; the consul has been speculated by a few to be identical with Clement of Rome; and of course the consul and the Alexandrian father share this name, Titus Flavius Clemens. Serious question: other than this fleeting overlap, how often has Clement of Rome been confused with Clement of Alexandria? (I do not mean simply reading the name "Clement" and momentarily wondering which one was meant; I mean actually confusing the biographical details, writings, or legends of the two men.)MrMacSon wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 4:34 pm.
Interestingly, 'Clement of Alexandria' (Greek: Κλήμης ὁ Ἀλεξανδρεύς; c. 150 – c. 215) was also named Titus Flavius Clemens
- (ie. the same name as the late first century consul some have speculated might have been Pope Clement (Latin: Clemens Romanus; Greek: Κλήμης Ῥώμης; died 99)).
probably involves a confusion between Clement of Rome from c 100 CE and Clement of Alexandria the Christian philosopher from c 200 CE.But, if the Philosopher Clemens thinks good, that the higher amongst beings should be called exemplars in relation to something, his statement advances, not through correct and perfect and simple names. But, when we have conceded even this, to be correctly said, we must call to mind the Word of God, which says, "I have not shewn thee these things for the purpose of going after them, but that through the proportionate knowledge of these we may be led up to the Cause of all, as we are capable."
"In the time of this Clement ... the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians ..."DCHindley wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:20 pm
Irenaeus, as has been already noted, knows of an epistle of this type:
... if a hypothetical "original" letter had existed, it predates his time (roughly 180 CE) as his version is clearly expanded by sermons of the type we see in the two surviving manuscripts.Irenaeus Against Heresies Book 3. 3:3 The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. ...
In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome dispatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spake with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels.
From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolical tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood [i.e., in Irenaeus' time, ca 150-180 CE], and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things.
Note the very last statement in 11 - "...as also from the former epistle, which was written to us through Clement."DCHindley wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:28 pm
I want to turn my attention now to Dionysius bishop of Corinth. Per Eusebius's H.E., our only surviving source about him (I think):
H.E. 4.23.1, 8-10
DCHChapter XXIII.—Dionysius, Bishop of Corinth, and the Epistles which he wrote.
1. And first we must speak of Dionysius, who was appointed bishop of the church in Corinth, and communicated freely of his inspired labors not only to his own people, but also to those in foreign lands, and rendered the greatest service to all in the catholic epistles which he wrote to the churches.
9. There is extant also another epistle written by Dionysius to the Romans, and addressed to Soter, who was bishop at that time. We cannot do better than to subjoin some passages from this epistle, in which he commends the practice of the Romans which has been retained down to the persecution in our own days. His words are as follows:
10. “For from the beginning it has been your practice to do good to all the brethren in various ways, and to send contributions to many churches in every city. Thus relieving the want of the needy, and making provision for the brethren in the mines by the gifts which you have sent from the beginning, you Romans keep up the hereditary customs of the Romans, which your blessed bishop Soter has not only maintained, but also added to, furnishing an abundance of supplies to the saints, and encouraging the brethren from abroad with blessed words, as a loving father his children.”
11. In this same epistle [addressed to Soter] he [Dionysius, Bp. of Corinth] makes mention also of Clement’s epistle to the Corinthians, showing that it had been the custom from the beginning to read it in the church. His words are as follows: “To-day we have passed the Lord’s holy day, in which we have read your [i.e., Soter's] epistle. From it, whenever we read it, we shall always be able to draw advice, as also from the former epistle, which was written to us through Clement.”
They may have been 'appointed' by later writers too.DCHindley wrote: ↑Tue Aug 21, 2018 6:28 pmThe concept of "Bishops" over large regions like the city of Rome may not have even existed when the anonymous Letter from the Romans to the Corinthians was first written. All that talk is about Presbyters (elders) appointed by the laying on of hands by Apostles, and the elders appointed by them, not of Bishops.
Origen identifies Pope Clement with St. Paul's fellow-labourer (Philippians 4:3, "..help these women since they have contended at my side in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement and the rest of my co-workers, whose names are in the book of life."), and so do Eusebius, Epiphanius, and Jerome — but this Clement 'was probably a Philippian'.
In the middle of the nineteenth century it was the custom to identity the pope with the consul of 95, T. Flavius Clemens [a nephew [or maybe great-nephew] of Vespasian], who was martyred by his first cousin, the Emperor Domitian [when consul]. But the ancients never suggest this, and the pope is 'said to have lived on till the reign of Trajan'. It is unlikely that he was a member of the imperial family. The continual use of the Old Testament in his Epistle suggested to Lightfoot, Funk, Nestle, and others that he was of Jewish origin ...
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04012c.htm ['scare' quotation marks mine]