Weddings and wine miracles

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nightshadetwine
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Weddings and wine miracles

Post by nightshadetwine »

It's interesting that the wine miracle in GJohn takes place at a wedding. In the month of January the ancient Greeks would have Dionysus festivals where water would turn into wine and weddings took place.

From "Reading Dionysus: Euripides’ Bacchae and the Cultural Contestations of Greeks, Jews, Romans, and Christians" by Courtney Friesen:
A juxtaposition of Jesus and Dionysus is also invited in the New Testament Gospel of John, in which the former is credited with a distinctively Dionysiac miracle in the wedding at Cana: the transformation of water into wine (2:1-11). In the Hellenistic world, there were many myths of Dionysus' miraculous production of wine, and thus, for a polytheistic Greek audience, a Dionysiac resonance in Jesus' wine miracle would have been unmistakable. To be sure, scholars are divided as to whether John's account is inspired by a polytheistic legend; some emphasize rather it's affinity with the Jewish biblical tradition. In view of the pervasiveness of Hellenism, however, such a distinction is likely not sustainable. Moreover, John's Gospel employs further Dionysiac imagery when Jesus later declares, "I am the true vine". John's Jesus, thus,presents himself not merely as a "New Dionysus," but one who supplants and replaces him.
From "Dionysos: Archetypal Image of Indestructible Life" by By Karl Kerenyi:
On the island of Andros, after the introduction of the Julian calendar, the same date[January 5th] was set for a Dionysian miracle, the transformation of the water from a certain spring into wine...It seems strange however--and was already thought strange in antiquity--that the Athenians should have chosen so cold a month as their Gamelion[January] for marriages...The marriage performed between the two festivals of Dionysos, the Leneaia and the Antheesteria, permitted the wives to participate in the second festival in a different way from the virgins. In that night Dionysos appeared as the woman's higher husband, the embodiment of indestructible zoe, and for this their marriage was a preparatory phase.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Weddings and wine miracles

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Dennis R. MacDonald has a new book out called The Dionysian Gospel: The Fourth Gospel and Euripides which delves into some of the issues concerning Dionysus and the fourth gospel while simultaneously arguing for particular layers in the gospel. I have read it through only once so far, and have yet to really digest the argument(s), so I am not exactly recommending it (at least not yet), but it is something that may interest you.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Weddings and wine miracles

Post by Giuseppe »

nightshadetwine wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:00 pm It's interesting that the wine miracle in GJohn takes place at a wedding. In the month of January the ancient Greeks would have Dionysus festivals where water would turn into wine and weddings took place.
a better candidate than Dionysus is the view that the miracle in GJohn was the John's correction of the Parable of Wineskins as invented/used by Marcion. Instead of a distinction between old and new wine, the water of old wineskins is cast in new wine directly.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
nightshadetwine
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Re: Weddings and wine miracles

Post by nightshadetwine »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 3:55 pm Dennis R. MacDonald has a new book out called The Dionysian Gospel: The Fourth Gospel and Euripides which delves into some of the issues concerning Dionysus and the fourth gospel while simultaneously arguing for particular layers in the gospel. I have read it through only once so far, and have yet to really digest the argument(s), so I am not exactly recommending it (at least not yet), but it is something that may interest you.
Thanks. Hadn't heard about that book, will check it out.
nightshadetwine
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Re: Weddings and wine miracles

Post by nightshadetwine »

a better candidate than Dionysus is the view that the miracle in GJohn was the John's correction of the Parable of Wineskins as invented/used by Marcion. Instead of a distinction between old and new wine, the water of old wineskins is cast in new wine directly.
I would agree but considering all the other similarities between Jesus and Dionysus along with the other hero/savior gods it seems like Jesus is doing the sort of things(performing miracles) that saviors are supposed to do. The author of John also has Jesus healing a blind man and raising someone from the dead which are two things that the hero/savior god Asclepius was known for doing. Maybe the author was influenced by both Dionysus and the parable of wineskins?
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Giuseppe
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Re: Weddings and wine miracles

Post by Giuseppe »

nightshadetwine wrote: Tue Aug 21, 2018 8:42 pmMaybe the author was influenced by both Dionysus and the parable of wineskins?
probably.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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