Does This Signify Titus's Capture of the Image in the Holy of Holies?

[Secret Alias]

when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains

When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains

Nobody in the early Church cites Mark's 'where it does not belong.' But it is interesting to note that if the editors addition 'which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet' you get an original sentence:

When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing in the holy place

Ὅταν οὖν ἴδητε τὸ βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως ἑστὼς ἐν τόπῳ ἁγίῳ

I wonder when all the later garbage is removed whether the basic original sense was Jesus warning his audience:

If you see the cherubim now standing in the holy of holies you're going to die so run.

In other words, the thing that is supposed to be the image of god hidden by curtains in the temple is like God, to see it is to die. Run.

In other words, the gospel is confirmed to have been written after 70 CE. Hence all the alterations. It doesn't seem that 'miraculous' a prophesy on second reading.

[Ben C. Smith]

when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains

When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains

Nobody in the early Church cites Mark's 'where it does not belong.' But it is interesting to note that if the editors addition 'which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet' you get an original sentence:

When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing in the holy place

Ὅταν οὖν ἴδητε τὸ βδέλυγμα τῆς ἐρημώσεως ἑστὼς ἐν τόπῳ ἁγίῳ

I wonder when all the later garbage is removed whether the basic original sense was Jesus warning his audience:

If you see the cherubim now standing in the holy of holies you're going to die so run.

In other words, the thing that is supposed to be the image of god hidden by curtains in the temple is like God, to see it is to die. Run.

In other words, the gospel is confirmed to have been written after 70 CE. Hence all the alterations. It doesn't seem that 'miraculous' a prophesy on second reading.

Well, on my own reading (expounded much upon in this forum in the past), it was actually a false prediction, made before 70, that the temple would be defiled. After 70 it had to be recontextualized and tweaked a bit to be forced to refer to the temple's destruction. "Let the reader understand" was meant precisely to help nudge the errant prediction into place.

[Secret Alias]

But Mark and Matthew have their own problems with this citation of Daniel. I think all the early witnesses cite Matthew. Since this is such a crucial prophetic section I am not sure we have the original text.

[Ben C. Smith]

But Mark and Matthew have their own problems with this citation of Daniel.

In what sense?

I think all the early witnesses cite Matthew.

That is usually the case. Mark was ignored compared to the other gospels, especially Matthew.

Since this is such a crucial prophetic section I am not sure we have the original text.

That may be so, but what I am saying is that the text that we do have seems to date both from before and from after 70. It was altered and recontextualized in order to line up with the destruction of Jerusalem.

[DCHindley]

when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains

When you see ‘the abomination that causes desolation’ standing where it does not belong—let the reader understand—then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains

Well, it is plain as day that this image is evidence of time travel. The box-like things on poles to the left and right of the Menorah are clearly film cameras as used in filming movies such as The 10 Commandments or The Greatest Story Ever Told. For them to be depicted in ancient Roman inscriptions means that someone, probably alien beings called "Watchers," had snapped photos of the modern film crews at work and brought them back in time to show off to the Romans, which the Roman sculptor of this inscription had seen. As proof of this, it has been speculated (by me, so it must be correct) that some of the ashes recovered from a private library in Herculaneum were from such a photographic print.

Matter closed ...

DCH (a warning: never ever take my mocking tone seriously, but there is a reason my Avatar is some angry looking dude scolding someone by shaking his spindly finger)

[Secret Alias]

Ben,

I have problems with both Mark's and Matthew's version of the prediction. But in the case of Mark's alleged 'original' reference, how is it explained THAT NOT A SINGLE CHURCH FATHER ever cites that particular formulation and everyone cites Matthew's? I think a case can be made that Mark's is a later redaction, an attempt to obscure further the original context. This is a case where Matthew certainly has priority.

[Secret Alias]

And I have found support for my interpretation from an ancient source. Clementine Homilies 2.17:

And thus, as the true Prophet has told us, a false prophet must first come from some deceiver; and then, in like manner, after the removal of the holy place, the true Gospel must be secretly sent abroad for the rectification of the heresies that shall be.

One could argue that the escape to the mountains in Matthew 24:15 is part of the gospel being 'sent abroad' after Titus's sacking of the temple. Not sure if we can argue that there was a proto-saying pointing to a 'Caligula-like' defiling of the temple which was later corrected. The gospel was written post-70 CE (unless you buy into Crossan's nonsense).

And the context of the statement is clearly associated with an original understanding in the lost source for the Clementia that sacrifices were an abomination - and we must assume - that it was not God who established the Pentateuch but Moses. Look how the same passage has been smoothed over in Recognitions:

'For we,' said I, 'have ascertained beyond doubt that God is much rather displeased with the sacrifices which you offer, the time of sacrifices having now passed away; and because ye will not acknowledge that the time for offering victims is now past, therefore the temple shall be destroyed, and the abomination of desolation shall stand in the holy place; and then the Gospel shall be preached to the Gentiles for a testimony against you, that your unbelief may be judged by their faith

Originally, as we have noted, when the Jews see the idols from the temple the curse of 'seeing God and dying' comes into effect and the Jews are slaughtered.