Why was John the Baptist called “John”?

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Giuseppe
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Why was John the Baptist called “John”?

Post by Giuseppe »

John 3:5
Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

John derives from Hebrew Yohanan (longer form y'hohanan), said to mean literally "Jehovah has favored".

Could be only a coincidence that just the “born of water” par excellence, John, was the only “favored by YHWH” who could enter the kingdom of God?

In addition to this, it seems that the role of John in the Gospels is to initiate the Jews, by the his secret knowledge, to the secret advent of Jesus.

We have another figure who initiated Valentinus by the secret teachings of Paul:

they say that Valentinus was a hearer of Theudas, and Theudas, in turn, a disciple of Paul.”

(Clement, Strom. VII.17)

The Theudas described in Josephus resembles strictly the John the Baptist figure:
Now it came to pass, while Fadus was procurator of Judea [44-46], that a certain magician, whose name was Theudas, persuaded a great part of the people to take their effects with them, and follow him to the river Jordan; for he told them he was a prophet, and that he would, by his own command, divide the river, and afford them an easy passage over it; and many were deluded by his words. However, Fadus did not permit them to make any advantage of his wild attempt, but sent a troop of horsemen out against them; who, falling upon them unexpectedly, slew many of them, and took many of them alive. They also took Theudas alive, and cut off his head, and carried it to Jerusalem.
Could the pauline Theudas precursor of Valentinus (a mythical figure) have inspired the creation of an anti-pauline anti-Theudas precursor of the Gospel Jesus (a mythical figure) in the figure of “John the Baptist” ?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Why was John the Baptist called “John”?

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The hypothesis that John the Baptist was invented against the marcionite Paul is partially evident by the Toledoth Jeshu, that describes Paul in the role of opener of the way (a Baptizer trait):

The Sages desired to separate from Israel those who continued to claim Yeshu as the Messiah, and they called upon a greatly learned man, Simeon Kepha, for help. Simeon went to Antioch, main city of the Nazarenes and proclaimed toe them: "I am the disciple of Yeshu. He has sent me to show you the way. I will give you a sign as Yeshu has done."

Simeon, having gained the secret of the Ineffable Name, healed a leper and a lame man by means of it and thus found acceptance as a true disciple. He told them that Yeshu was in heaven, at the right hand of his Father, in fulfillment of Psalm 110:1. He added that Yeshu desired that they separate themselves from the Jews and no longer follow their practices, as Isaiah had said, "Your new moons and your feasts my soul abhorreth." They were now to observe the first day of the week instead of the seventh, the Resurrection instead of the Passover, the Ascension into Heaven instead of the Feast of Weeks, the finding of the Cross instead of the New Year, the Feast of the Circumcision instead of the Day of Atonement, the New Year instead of Chanukah; they were to be indifferent with regard to circumcision and the dietary laws. Also they were to follow the teaching of turning the right if smitten on the left and the meek acceptance of suffering. All these new ordinances which Simeon Kepha (or Paul, as he was known to the Nazarenes) taught them were really meant to separate these Nazarenes from the people of Israel and to bring the internal strife to an end.

http://jewishchristianlit.com/Topics/Je ... edoth.html

Hence while Paul was the Apostle "sent to show the way" after Jesus, against Paul, John was invented as the Prophet "sent to show the way" before Jesus.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Why was John the Baptist called “John”?

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What if Paul was the precursor of Jesus even before that John the Baptist was invented to replace him in the role of precursor of the Jesus?

9 Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything

(Acts 9:1-9)

Note that even in this anti-pauline episode, the Risen Christ continues to send Paul along the same way he was already going through before his fall.

In the way Paul the ancient precursor of Jesus is converted (by the same Risen Christ appeared on the way to Damascus) in a new follower of Jesus last of all.

All this would help to throw an anti-marcionite light on the invented figure of John the Baptist.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Why was John the Baptist called “John”?

Post by Giuseppe »

In the Fourth Gospel the "beloved Disciple" is been confused with John the son of Zebedee.
Note that the Beloved Disciple arrived to the Empty Tomb before than Peter.

But "John" means "beloved by YHWH" (the demiurge). Could he be the "Beloved Disciple" insofar he was also the first, in absolute terms, to preach Jesus, in the role of "John the Baptist"?

Also in this case, against Marcion.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Secret Alias
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Re: Why was John the Baptist called “John”?

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The tactic being employed by Giuseppe is splatter shit all over the forum and hope the stench sickens everyone so much that everyone runs away
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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MrMacSon
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Re: Why was John the Baptist called “John”?

Post by MrMacSon »

Giuseppe wrote: Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:32 am
The Theudas described in Josephus resembles strictly the John the Baptist figure:
... a certain magician, whose name was Theudas, persuaded a great part of the people to take their effects with them, and follow him to the river Jordan; for he told them he was a prophet, and that he would, by his own command, divide the river, and afford them an easy passage over it; and many were deluded* by his words ...
* the original had deluged, and "by his words" is an interpolation /tongue-in-cheek, not really
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Giuseppe
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Re: Why was John the Baptist called “John”?

Post by Giuseppe »

Always from the Toledoth Jeschu, we see that John the Baptist is became Yohanan while the role of opener of the way is given to Paul/Simon (see above):

Near his house dwelt a widow and her lovely and chaste daughter named Miriam. Miriam was betrothed to Yohanan, of the royal house of David, a man learned in the Torah and God-fearing.
At the close of a certain Sabbath, Joseph Pandera, attractive and like a warrior in appearance, having gazed lustfully upon Miriam, knocked upon the door of her room and betrayed her by pretending that he was her betrothed husband, Yohanan. Even so, she was amazed at this improper conduct and submitted only against her will.
Thereafter, when Yohanan came to her, Miriam expressed astonishment at behavior so foreign to his character. It was thus that they both came to know the crime of Joseph Pandera and the terrible mistake on the part of Miriam. Whereupon Yohanan went to Rabban Shimeon ben Shetah and related to him the tragic seduction. Lacking witnesses required for the punishment of Joseph Pandera, and Miriam being with child, Yohanan left for Babylonia.[2]

Note the opposition between Joseph Pandera and John/Yohanan: if Jesus was born from Mary and Yohanan, then this would be equivalent to give a human birth for the Messiah, along the judaizing and anti-marcionite lines “born by woman, born under the law”.

While the fact that Jesus is born from Mary and “Pandera”, i.e. by the parody of the Virgin Mary, alludes to his divine origin, against a human and Jewish birth (as alluded by Yohanan).

Clearly, according to the author of Toledoth, the Jesus prophetized by John the Baptist is better (as more “Jewish” in the his eyes) than the Jesus of purely divine and unknown origin (as the parody of Panthera as unknown father may allude to), even if he was condemning both the two Jesuses.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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