Proofs That Jesus Did Not Exist

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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JoeWallack
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Argument From The Best Bad Argument

Post by JoeWallack » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:32 am

ARGUMENT FROM THE BEST BAD ARGUMENT
(1) There is a lot of positive evidence that Jesus existed but most of it is bad.
(2) There is no positive evidence that Jesus did not exist.
(3) RG Price argues that most of GMark has good parallels to The Jewish Bible and knows (apparently through Revelation) that the author intended a complete fiction.
(4) This is the best bad argument that Jesus did not exist.
(5) Therefore, Jesus did not exist.

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JoeWallack
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Argument From The SpongeBob SquarePants Musical

Post by JoeWallack » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:33 am

ARGUMENT FROM THE SPONGEBOB SQUAREPANTS MUSICAL
(1) My argument's not a loser.
(2) I don’t secretly hate it myself.
(3) I’m not arguing this to no one.
(4) It’s not the case that no one cares.
(5) My argument's not a failure.
(6) My argument does not not have talent.
(7) When others see my argument they can’t see the nothing argument that isn’t there.
(8) Therefore, Jesus did not exist.

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JoeWallack
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ARGUMENT FROM DEFINITION CONTRADICTION

Post by JoeWallack » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:33 pm

ARGUMENT FROM DEFINITION CONTRADICTION
(1) The Dictionary definition of "prove" uses words like "truth", "validity" and "correctness" in the context of choosing between truth, falseness or uncertainty.
(2) The word "probably" is in the dictionary proving that "prove" is a different word.
(3) R.G. Price says that "prove" does not necessarily have a context of 100% fact.
(4) Therefore, Jesus did not exist.

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arnoldo
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Did Not Exist

Post by arnoldo » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:31 pm

Giuseppe wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:00 pm
If the Testimonium Flavianum is partially genuine, then Jesus didn't exist
Conversely, if the Testimonium Flavianum is totally forged, then Jesus didn't exist either.

Bernard Muller
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Did Not Exist

Post by Bernard Muller » Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:32 pm

to Ben,
"Born of a woman" was probably not in the Marcionite version of Galatians, and may be an orthodox interpolation, IMHO. And I have made an argument elsewhere that Romans 1.1b-5a is an interpolation. I am not completely persuaded by either of these positions, but I do feel they are worth considering.
Of course "born of a woman" was not in the Marcionite version. That would be against Marcion's teaching.
But, as I explained here http://historical-jesus.info/18.html, Gal 4:4 is the crux of an argument by Paul:
"Paul used the common knowledge Jesus had been an earthly man (from a woman) and a Jew (as descendant of Abraham) in order to clinch a long & complicated argument. If the existence of Jesus on earth was not accepted or even doubted, then the argument would simply not work"
And "born of the seed of David according to the flesh" is also supported by Ro 15:12.

Cordially, Bernard
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Did Not Exist

Post by Bernard Muller » Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:59 pm

"1) GMark is entirely fictional"
Easier said than proven. Actually "Mark" showed uneasiness about the "disturbance" and Jesus, in his last days, being considered by some Jews as becoming in the near future the temporal king over the Jews. Furthermore, "Mark" had the disciples not "seeing/understanding" the most spectacular alleged extraordinary miracles. BTW, there is no disciples worshiping of Jesus in GMark. Also the disciples do not understand what rising from the dead means, and the gospel does not say they were made aware of the Resurrection. And what made Jesus being considered a healer among illiterate rural people is him silencing a heckler (embellished as an exorcism) and getting Peter's mother-in-law out of bed (probably where she pretended to be still sick).
That, and more, does not tell me that GMark is entirely fictional.
See http://historical-jesus.info (then "find" on "the case").
See about the extraordinary miracles at http://historical-jesus.info/88.html and http://historical-jesus.info/89.html
About the disturbance http://historical-jesus.info/87.html
About "king of the Jews" http://historical-jesus.info/29.html

How a lowly human Jesus (as delimited by Paul) and described by "Mark" (after sorting out embellishments and fiction) became the focus of a new religion: http://historical-jesus.info/46.html

Finally, I cannot resist sharing what I received lately from one of my reader:
"I just want to thank you tremendously for your site. For quite some time now I have been researching the historical jesus, reading and reading books upon books. I find it fascinating how one man could have altered the course of human history. Your theories are by far and away 1, the most plausible, and 2, the best sourced. It is simply just occam's razor spelled out for anyone to read. ...
This is by far and away, the most honest approach to a historical Jesus I have ever seen. Started from completely non-biased, completely objective, detective work.
I am an atheist, however, I have received catholic school education from kindergarten all through college and have always been interested about who the man they were teaching actually was, outside of the faith. I wish I would have had one professor who was open and honest to an approach such as this, sadly they don't exist because they are blinded by faith.
For years I have been doing my own independent research (starting as a part time hobby such as yourself), and concluded an end to a means extremely similar to yours but couldn't exactly put it to words the way you masterfully have. I stumbled upon your site about 1 year ago from earlychristianwritings.com and haven't been able to stop devouring every bit of information you have on it. ...
Again, thank you for all the work you have done, especially since this is your free time you work on this and thank you for putting out the best theory on a historical Jesus that exists."


Cordially, Bernard
I believe freedom of expression should not be curtailed

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arnoldo
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Did Not Exist

Post by arnoldo » Fri Feb 15, 2019 3:39 pm

The original writings by Paul depicted a non-earthly Jesus
Paul did not exist
Therefore Jesus did not exist
Last edited by arnoldo on Sat Feb 16, 2019 5:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Peter Kirby
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Re: Proofs That Jesus Did Not Exist

Post by Peter Kirby » Fri Feb 15, 2019 8:49 pm

arnoldo wrote:
Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:31 pm
Giuseppe wrote:
Sat Feb 09, 2019 11:00 pm
If the Testimonium Flavianum is partially genuine, then Jesus didn't exist
Conversely, if the Testimonium Flavianum is totally forged, then Jesus didn't exist either.
Checkmate! :lol:
"... almost every critical biblical position was earlier advanced by skeptics." - Raymond Brown

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