Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

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Irish1975
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Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by Irish1975 » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:37 pm

Galatians 1:15-16 seems really puzzling and important:
But when it pleased God...to reveal his son in me (apocalypsai ton huion autou en emoi), that I might preach him among the gentiles...
For years I had not noticed this, since RSV and NRSV perversely translate the prepositional phrase en emoi as "to me," as if this were no different from altering "brothers" to "brothers and sisters."

What to make of it? I consulted various commentaries, and noticed that conservative authors sometimes try to explain it away by a fanciful theory of the [en + dative] construction, or by assimilating the usage to the subsequent phrase "among the gentiles," as if that clarified anything.

If you read it plainly, and ignore the other two Pauline reports of his encounter/calling in 1 Cor 9 & 15, and of course the hopelessly fictional account in Acts, you are left with a mystical experience, and not a visionary one. It also does not reference Jesus or Christ specifically, but just God's son, which could be taken a number of ways.

The only recent book I know that examines this passage with insight is Steven Davies' Spirit Possession and the Origins of Christianity. He makes important associations between this mystical event in Paul and the Odes of Solomon, in which the concept of the Messiah is highly mystical and subjective.
"Jesus tricked everyone" ~the gospel of Philip

outhouse
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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by outhouse » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:54 pm

Your missing context altogether which is "in his conscious mind" "in my heart and soul," seems more likely.

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DCHindley
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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by DCHindley » Sun Sep 30, 2018 3:53 pm

Irish1975 wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:37 pm
Galatians 1:15-16 seems really puzzling and important:
But when it pleased God...to reveal his son in me (apocalypsai ton huion autou en emoi), that I might preach him among the gentiles...
For years I had not noticed this, since RSV and NRSV perversely translate the prepositional phrase en emoi as "to me," as if this were no different from altering "brothers" to "brothers and sisters."

What to make of it? I consulted various commentaries, and noticed that conservative authors sometimes try to explain it away by a fanciful theory of the [en + dative] construction, or by assimilating the usage to the subsequent phrase "among the gentiles," as if that clarified anything.

If you read it plainly, and ignore the other two Pauline reports of his encounter/calling in 1 Cor 9 & 15, and of course the hopelessly fictional account in Acts, you are left with a mystical experience, and not a visionary one. It also does not reference Jesus or Christ specifically, but just God's son, which could be taken a number of ways.

The only recent book I know that examines this passage with insight is Steven Davies' Spirit Possession and the Origins of Christianity. He makes important associations between this mystical event in Paul and the Odes of Solomon, in which the concept of the Messiah is highly mystical and subjective.
I kind of see the "in me" as meaning Paul had been predestined by God, from his mother's womb, to be a revealer of a new way of looking at gentile association with ethnic Judeans. God had set everything up, and no one seemed to have connected the dots until Paul came along to the right time & place for God to set things in motion through a vision. This was just Paul's way of rationalizing how his inner conflicts worked out. He uses the analogy of a potter creating his clay vessels, some meant for honorable purposes (wash basins, cooking plated and pots, etc) and some for more humble purposes (chamber pots). He was a cooking pot, apparently.

DCH

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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by FransJVermeiren » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:38 am

My research has shown that Jesus was active during the war against the Romans 66-70 CE. Therefore Paul’s activity was entirely pre-Jesus, and the mission he designed for himself was to preach the future Christ to the gentiles.

From verse 6 on, Galatians 1 is totally about Christ except one ‘Jesus’ mention in verse 12, which IMO is not authentic because it disturbs Paul’s line of thought in this fragment. Considered through this lens the revelation of the Christ, God’s son, in Paul is not puzzling at all. In verse 11-24 Paul simply and clearly describes his history in Judaism. In the beginning he fervently opposed the (messianic )‘church of God’, but at a certain moment he radically changed his mind and became the trailblazer of the expected messiah among the gentiles. Paul mentions that this change was not influenced by others, it entirely happened inside himself, therefore ἐν ἐμοί.

Irish1975
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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by Irish1975 » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:31 pm

outhouse wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:54 pm
Your missing context altogether which is "in his conscious mind" "in my heart and soul," seems more likely.
I think you mean "subtext" rather than "context." You can certainly put that subtext into it if you want, but it isn't there.
"Jesus tricked everyone" ~the gospel of Philip

iskander
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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by iskander » Tue Oct 02, 2018 6:03 am

Paul's choice to use ἐν here is likely intended that the revelation of God's Son had a transformative power "in" his very being. " the revelation had enlightened his whole soul, and ...he had Christ speaking within him". ( Chrysostom, Comm. Gal. ).
Galatians
Douglas Moo
ECNT, Baker Academic, pg 104
ISBN 9780801027543

And


To reveal his son in me

Now, if the Gospel be the revealing of the Son of God, as Paul defineth it in this place, then surely it accuseth not, it terrifieth not the conscience, it threateneth not death, it bringeth not to despair, as the law doth; but it is a doctrine concerning Christ, who is assuredly neither law nor work, but our righteousness, wisdom, sanctification, and redemption (1 Corinthians 1:30)..

Although this thing be more clear than the sunlight, yet notwithstanding, the madness and blindness of the Papists hath been so great, that of the Gospel they have made a law of charity, and of Christ a lawmaker, giving more strait and heavy commandments than Moses himself.
Martin Luther, Galatians

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DCHindley
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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by DCHindley » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:32 am

Hmmm,

Perhaps I should have given a fuller explanation of where I stand on the issue of "en emoi":
1:15 But when *it pleased [God]* the (one) who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me (Isa 49:1; Jer 1:5) through his grace, 1:16a to reveal 1:16b his Son 1:16c by means of me, in order that I might proclaim Him as good news among the Gentiles, I did not confer with flesh and blood ...
I have treated the "son" part as an interpolation, primarily because the phraseology of 1:15 comes from one or both of the following:
Isa 49:1 (Brenton) Hearken to me, ye islands; and attend, ye Gentiles; after a long time it shall come to pass, saith (the) Lord: from my mother's womb he has called my name ...


Here, at least, the word "Lord" (underlined for emphasis) is anarthrous (no definite article) and almost certainly refers to YHWH. There is nothing here about a "son."
Jer 1:5 (Brenton, slightly changed) Before I formed thee in (the) belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth from (thy) mother, I sanctified thee; a prophet to the nations I appointed thee.
The referent here is Jeremiah, when God called him to be a prophet. I don't think this is what Paul was alluding to (that he, Paul, was a prophet), as he never makes a claim like that, although he certainly felt he was speaking as God's representative to help usher in the new faith-based dispensation that was dawning by spreading the good news about it. So, practically speaking, he was functioning as a prophet, but not as someone looking far into the future, but speaking right at the point where god had ordained that gentiles and Judeans were brothers in faith, and the blessed future age would be inherited equally by all the faithful.

Lunch is over, so back to the grind ...

DCH

iskander
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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by iskander » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:38 am

Ga. 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
KJV

To reueale his sonne in mee, that I might preach him among the heathen, immediatly I conferred not with flesh and blood:
KJV 1611


Ver. 16. I condescended not to flesh and blood. Lit. I did not acquiesce to flesh and blood. I had no regard to temporal friends or advantages. Some expound it, I did not think it necessary to consult the other apostles, men who were my countrymen: and so it follows, I came not to Jerusalem to the apostles, to be instructed by them, having been instructed by Christ himself. Wi.
HAYDOCK CATHOLIC BIBLE COMMENTARY ON THE NEW TESTAMENT
GALATIANS 1
https://www.ecatholic2000.com/haydock/n ... t173.shtml

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by Ben C. Smith » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:43 am

DCHindley wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:32 am
So, practically speaking, he was functioning as a prophet, but not as someone looking far into the future, but speaking right at the point where god had ordained that gentiles and Judeans were brothers in faith, and the blessed future age would be inherited equally by all the faithful.
For Paul, the future was now; the kingdom was here, the final consummation less than a lifetime away.
ΤΙ ΕΣΤΙΝ ΑΛΕΘΕΙΑ

FransJVermeiren
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Re: Revealing the son in Paul (Galatians 1:16)

Post by FransJVermeiren » Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:37 am

DCH, a small reply to your last contribution

1. The Essenes and prophecy

For the Essenes, who produced Christianity and the New Testament, the prophetic era had not ended yet, and prominent Essenes were seen or saw themselves as prophets.

Josephus War II:159 (on the Essenes): Some of them claim to foretell the future as a result of a lifelong study of sacred writings, various forms of purification and the aphorisms of the prophets; rarely if ever do their predictions prove wrong.

Jesus is an Essene priest. Luke 13:33: Nevertheless I [Jesus] I must go on my way today and tomorrow and the day following; for it cannot be that a prophet should perish away from Jerusalem.

So it is plausible that Paul and Jesus saw themselves as prophets.

2. OT references in the NT

Maybe the relation between OT fragments and their use in the NT is not as rectilinear as you state. The Essenes had a special technique, called pesher, to give a new, eschatological explanation to various OT texts. Moreover, the Community Rule seems to give a lot of maneuvering space to its members.

Community Rule column IX verse 12 (title of the paragraph): These are the precepts in which the Master shall walk in His commerce with all the living, according to the rule proper to every season and according to the worth of every man.

Community Rule column IX verse 18 (same paragraph): He [the Master] shall guide them all [those who have chosen the Way] in knowledge according to the spirit of each and according to the rule of the age.

This maneuvering space seems to be personal (the worth of every man/the spirit of each) and related to the era (the rule proper to every season/according to the rule of the age).

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