Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Only Luke

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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Secret Alias wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:46 amIn the Greek speaking world there seems to have been John versus Mark, Asia versus Rome.
I suspect that, if we were living early in century II and somebody told us that either Rome or Ephesus was going to become the de facto capital of Christianity within a couple of centuries, we would be hard pressed to tell which of the two would do so. In fact, we might be very tempted to suggest Ephesus. Just a thought I have been coddling for some time.
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

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Ben C. Smith wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:37 pm I suspect that, if we were living early in century II and somebody told us that either Rome or Ephesus was going to become the de facto capital of Christianity within a couple of centuries, we would be hard pressed to tell which of the two would do so. In fact, we might be very tempted to suggest Ephesus. Just a thought I have been coddling for some time.
'Rome' moved to Bithynia and Pontus in the 280s, and 50 yrs later 'Nova Roma' was established as 'Byzantine Rome' Βυζαντιάς Ῥώμη when it was being extensively rebuilt AD 326-330.

aka Νέα, δευτέρα Ῥώμη ('the New, second Rome'), Ἄλμα Ῥώμα, ('Alma Roma'), ἑῴα Ῥώμη ('Eastern Rome'), and Roma Constantinopolitana.

eta: I wonder if the empire's and Rome's demise was why most of the predominant Church Fathers in the late 2nd century through the 3rd century were outside Rome (?) (Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen; though Hippolytus is said to have been based in Rome)
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

Post by Ben C. Smith »

MrMacSon wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 8:53 pmI wonder if the empire's and Rome's demise was why most of the predominant Church Fathers in the late 2nd century through the 3rd century were outside Rome (?) (Irenaeus, Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen; Hippolytus was in Rome though, I think)
Hippolytus, yes, and so too Novatian. Poor Novatian; nobody ever seems to remember him. Hippolytus also supposedly opposed Gaius of Rome. And of course there are those bishops of Rome who were later known as Popes (Victor, Callixtus, and so on).
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

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Ben C. Smith wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:02 pm ... and so too Novatian. Poor Novatian; nobody ever seems to remember him.
According to Wikipedia -
Novatian (c. 200–258) was a scholar, priest, theologian and 'antipope' . . :o ...

... Consecrated as pope by three bishops in 251, he adopted a more rigorous position than the established Pope Cornelius. Novatian was shortly afterwards excommunicated: the schismatic church which he established persisted for several centuries (see Novatianism) [that introductory section then says "Novatian fled during a period of persecutions, and may have been a martyr", though, in a later section ...]

On 20 January 250, during the Decian persecution, Pope Fabian was martyred and the persecution was so fierce that it proved impossible to elect a successor, with the papal seat remaining vacant for a year. During this period the church was governed by several priests, including Novatian. In a letter the following year, Cornelius speaks of his rival whose cowardice and love of his own life made him deny to the persecutors that he was a priest and refuse to comfort his brothers in danger. The deacons urged him to come out of hiding, but he told them that he was in love with another philosophy and thus did not want to be a priest any longer. The story's significance is unclear; Novatian may have been avoiding being an active priest to dedicate himself to an ascetic lifestyle.

Novatian died in 258, probably during Valerian's persecutions, in the same year as his opponent Cyprian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novatian
There's so much vague adherence in those times eg. Tertullian became a Montanist. And so much inter-personnel ^conflict.


Ben C. Smith wrote: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:02 pm Hippolytus also supposedly opposed Gaius of Rome. And of course there are those bishops of Rome who were later known as Popes (Victor, Callixtus, and so on).
lol -
[Hippolytus] came into conflict with the popes of his time and seems to have headed a schismatic group as a rival to the Bishop of Rome, thus becoming an[other] Antipope. He opposed the Roman Popes who softened the penitential system to accommodate the large number of new pagan converts. However, he was reconciled to the Church before he died as a martyr.

Starting in the fourth century, various legends arose about him, identifying him as a priest of the Novatianist schism or as a soldier converted by Saint Lawrence. He has also been confused with another martyr of the same name.

As a presbyter of the church at Rome under Pope Zephyrinus (199–217), Hippolytus was distinguished for his learning and eloquence. It was at this time that Origen, then a young man, heard him preach.[4]

He accused Pope Zephyrinus of modalism, the heresy which held that the names Father and Son are simply different names for the same subject. Hippolytus championed the Logos doctrine of the Greek apologists, most notably Justin Martyr, which distinguished the Father from the Logos ("Word"). An ethical conservative, he was scandalized when Pope Callixtus I (217–222) extended absolution to Christians who had committed grave sins, such as adultery.[5]

Hippolytus himself advocated a pronounced rigorism.[6] At this time, he seems to have allowed himself to be elected as a rival Bishop of Rome, and continued to attack Pope Urban I (222–230) and Pope Pontian (230–235).[1] G. Salmon suggests that Hippolytus was the leader of the Greek-speaking Christians of Rome.[7] Allen Brent sees the development of Roman house-churches into something akin to Greek philosophical schools gathered around a compelling teacher.[8]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippolytus_of_Rome

Pope Zephyrinus's predecessor Pope Victor I had excommunicated Theodotus the Tanner for reviving a heresy that Christ only became God after his resurrection. Theodotus' followers formed a separate heretical community at Rome ruled by another Theodotus, the Money Changer, and Asclepiodotus. Natalius, who was tortured for his faith during the persecution, was persuaded by Asclepiodotus to become a bishop in their sect in exchange for a monthly stipend of 150 denarii. Natalius then reportedly experienced several visions1 warning him to abandon these heretics. According to an anonymous work entitled The Little Labyrinth and quoted by Eusebius, Natalius was whipped a whole night by an angel1; the next day he donned sackcloth and ashes, and weeping bitterly threw himself at the feet of Zephyrinus.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Zephyrinus
1 dreamworld inspired stories and likely also theology (so few accounts about Christianity in these accounts of 2nd and 3rd c. church figures)
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

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If anyone cares to think about my unprovable hypothesis. Imagine you are trying to make sense of Christianity at the end of the second century (I say that because of the general tenor of discussions at the forum). When you look at Patristic evidence from the period (or a little later but which - I believe - come from a rewriting or loose translation from Greek into Latin) you get this strangely consistent reference to:

1. a conflict between Rome and Asia Minor in the age of Victor
2. a controversy about the dating of Passover/Easter
3. the Montanist controversy
4. the Alogoi controversy

To be certain Irenaeus, Hippolytus and Tertullian are still producing 'Against Marcion' treatises but I see a commonality behind all of these writers and more importantly the Marcionite controversy seems to go back to the circle of Justin. Again treatises were repurposed by the aforemented 'HIT (Hippolytus, Irenaeus, Tertullian)' axis. But when you look at 1 - 4 you see not only do all go back to a Rome vs Asia Minor context (and Polycarp's original HOSTILE visit to Anicetus's church which is covered up in the same way Paul's statement about Peter in Galatians is in Acts) but ultimately a Johannine controversy. Surely Victor's authority over the churches of Asia Minor had something to do with (2), (3) and (4). Surely Montanism is developed from the statements about the Paraclete now found only in John (but clearly also found in Marcion's supposed Luke).

The point is that - without knowing the how, why, when or where of it - 'the Church' that emerged in the third century found a way to overcome this binary conflict. Irenaeus clearly played a role. The four gospel gospel ended up being the solution. Again we don't know the how, why, when or where of it but the end is known. The Church somehow solved all the problems with a four gospel gospel:

1. unlike a Mark only tradition (which must have existed in Rome and Alexandria at least theoretically) which would have been used to argue for the primacy of Rome or Alexandria a four gospel gospel means there is no center to Christianity as the gospel was written in four different places.
2. the dating of Passover is left to Anicetus and Polycarp's alleged 'agree to disagree' rule given that the synoptics and John are both legitimate and both have different dating for Jesus's crucifixion.
3. the Montanist controversy is solved by the manner in which 'the Paraclete' is described, de-humanizing the expectation and coupled with the opening lines of Acts, allowing for the possibility that Jesus might simply have been promising the dispensation of the spirit. Clearly a rival understanding perpetuated outside authority (or agreement of authority) for the four gospel gospel given that the Marcionites still believed Paul was the Paraclete in Edessa and Osrhoene and Alexandria, the Montanists continued to flourish, Mani appealed his case to be the Paraclete to the Marcionites in the East (as per Hegemonius) and Muhammad eventually unseats the 'falsified' Christianity which denied the original understanding of the Paraclete expectation of Jesus in Semitic lands.
4. Eventually the influence of Gaius is not enough to keep John out of Rome and Polycarp's triumph over Anicetus is complete.
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

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1. Tacitus, Histories, Book 3:

"All other nations were equally restless. A sudden outbreak had been excited in Pontus by a barbarian slave, who had before commanded the royal fleet. This was Anicetus, a freedman of Polemon, once a very powerful personage, who, when the kingdom was converted into a Roman province, ill brooked the change. Accordingly he raised in the name of Vitellius the tribes that border on Pontus, bribed a number of very needy adventurers by the hope of plunder, and, at the head of a force by no means contemptible, made a sudden attack on the old and famous city of Trapezus, founded by the Greeks on the farthest shore of the Pontus..."

Before Vespasian marches on Rome to starve Rome into submission, he travels through Alexandria to secure the grain. Mucianus circles through Pontus, demanding a blistering Taxation Schedule. He commandeers the best Liburnian boats. Anicetus fills the vacuum:

"The matter attracted the attention of Vespasian, and induced him to dispatch some veterans from the legions under Virdius Geminus, a tried soldier. Finding the enemy in disorder and dispersed in the eager pursuit of plunder, he attacked them, and drove them to their ships. Hastily fitting out a fleet of Liburnian ships he pursued Anicetus, and overtook him at the mouth of the river Cohibus, where he was protected by the king of the Sedochezi, whose alliance he had secured by a sum of money and other presents. This prince at first endeavoured to protect the suppliant by a threat of hostilities; when, however, the choice was presented to him between war and the profit to be derived from treachery, he consented, with the characteristic perfidy of barbarians, to the destruction of Anicetus, and delivered up the refugees. So ended this servile war..."

2. Marcion hails from Sinope, a short cab ride from Pontus. Marcion was a mere generation removed from this action - His parents or grandparents were either there or close to it. It should be reasonable to assume that Marcion knew of the more recent history of the area.

3. When we pick up the story after this, Pontus is very important in the Religious Scheme of Things. There ain't no mention of no King of the Sedochezi, that Truck Stop has been swept away and is not mentioned anymore. A group of thugs under the leadership Virdius Germinus is not going to control the area as under Vespasian.

4. Pontus isn't a piss pot in a corn field anymore. What happened? In a hundred years-ish, this area has become important beyond its roots.

What has been left out? What happened?

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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

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Secret Alias wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:54 amSurely Montanism is developed from the statements about the Paraclete now found only in John (but clearly also found in Marcion's supposed Luke).
Either that or the Paraclete was an Asian concept which John put into writing and the Montanists put into practice.

The Montanists may have simply been carrying on a prophetic tradition current in Asia since the beginning, as exemplified by the stories surrounding Philip's daughters, prophetesses one and all. The final compromise must have involved the Asian churches putting down the bong and easing off of the prophesy, at least a bit, the Montanists themselves being the diehards who continued to go full throttle despite pressure to the contrary.
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

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Charles Wilson wrote: Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:21 amPontus isn't a piss pot in a corn field anymore. What happened? In a hundred years-ish, this area has become important beyond its roots.
Important beyond its roots? Pontus used to be its own kingdom, the most notorious king of which (Mithridates VI, the Poison King) once gave Rome a run for her money.
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

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Notice also how 'the Apocalypse' (thanks Ben) is used to interpret things said in the Synoptic gospel(s). We saw that with Lazarus and the rich man where the 'action' is understood to take place 'under the altar' (= the table with the sacraments). This is based on the idea that one Holy Spirit spoke to both (a) Luke a synoptic gospel and (b) John (the author of the Apocalypse) so that to understand (a) you have to read (b). This is simply an incredible formula given that John doesn't mention the Lazarus and 'Dives' narrative. Or is it? Would an ancient reader have used Hesiod to understand Homer? Yes certainly. So in a sense, once you accept that the Apocalypse isn't an 'interpretation' and rather a 'factual account' of what is and was and will be it is the Marcionite position which is strange and dare I say it - more Jewish. The Jews were one of the few people in antiquity to hold back the gods and religious revelations of other cultures. In the pagan world it seems everyone accepted the experiences of everyone else and tried to assimilate them with their own. Marcion effectively acted like a Jew when it came to the experiences within the greater Christian tent. He said there is only one apostle, the Jews and Samaritans said there is only one apostle Moses. The Jews and Samaritans said there is only one Law. Marcion said effectively these new revelations, gospels, letters were all forgeries or falsified revelations. The Jews said the same thing about their neighboring co-religionists. In short the solution to the conflict was to 'Gentilize' Christianity - to make less Jewish. Strange then that Marcion is accused of being anti-Jewish.
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Re: Tertullian Says Marcion Had Access to All Four Gospels But 'Beat Up' Luke

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Either that or the Paraclete was an Asian concept which John put into writing and the Montanists put into practice.
True but there seems to also be a Semitic concept at the core. Also I can't help but view Edessan Christianity as Marcionism and notice the way Paul is called the Paraclete in Hegemonius and in Origen's testimony about the Marcionites in Homilies on Luke. Notice also the way Marcion is identified in Paraclete like ways in Against Marcion (i.e. the whole Jesus came under Tiberius but we had to wait until Antoninus to get Marcion his savior in Book 1). This line of logic was also used against Mani and Muhammad. It assumes that Jesus preached the coming of Marcion, Montanus, Mani, Muhammad (all the Ms) but their claims to have come only lately is refuted by its lateness. In short, the Montanists I think borrowed the Paraclete expectation from their opponents. Some of Polycarp/Peregrinus's appeal has to have arisen from him being the awaited Paraclete. It's in Lucian at least. So too the whole Jesus vs Christ angle were Jesus and Christ are two different powers at core of the proper exegesis of the gospel of Mark according to Irenaeus. I will send you a comforter or another comforter is a way of saying a second power.
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