Thanks, DC. Havn't read it, but will take a look at it. Just read the first pages, looks like she's saying something like what I also think: The NT texts are generally talking about the Christians as a new race of humans. When Paul says that the Christians are "son of God" or "children of God" (e.g. Rom 8), then I think he means it literally and materially. I base my view on the understanding that spirits in the NT should not be understood in a modern 'platonic' understanding, i.e. as something non-material, but (as Engberg-Pedersen argues) in the way the stoics understood it, i.e. as material, a fine, airy substance.DCHindley wrote: ↑Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:14 pmYou have a pretty good grasp if the circumstances.Stefan Kristensen wrote: ↑Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:57 am With regards to the question of "this generation", I was reading in Acts and saw this interesting bit in connection with the incident with the first conversions to faith ever, where Luke says something about conversion meaning "saved from this crooked generation".
It's Pentecost and the apostles receive the spirit and preaches about God's mighty deeds (2:11) in all kinds of languages. Beause of that a large crowd gathers of diaspora Jews who have travelled to Jerusalem to lodge for the Pentecost (apparantly). They are confounded and wonder about how these Galileans are able to do this all of a sudden, speaking in all the various native languages of these diaspora Jews.
Peter then addresses them in preaching, the very first preaching of the gospel in history, as it were, explaining from Scripture what is going on, i.e. the gift of the holy spirit given by Jesus as he has been resurreced and has taken his seat with God as Lord and messiah.
Throughout the speech Peter addresses these Jews first as "Judeans and all you who lodge in Jerusalem" (2:14), then "Israelites" (2:22), and then "brothers" (2:29), and then indirectly "the whole house of Israel" (2:36). At the end, these Jews are then "cut to the heart" and ask Peter and the rest of the apostles: "What shall we do, Brothers!" Peter answers them:Acts 2,38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2,39 For the promise is for you, for your children, and for all who are far away, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to him.”
Acts 2,40 And he testified with many other arguments and exhorted them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.”
Acts 2,41 So those who welcomed his message were baptized, and that day about three thousand persons were added.
Acts 2,42 They devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.
This must mean that when you convert, you are no longer part of the "crooked generation". If so, then generation (γενεα) here means ethnic lineage, i.e. the Jewish 'race'. When you convert you are not of the Jewish race, or people. So what is your 'new' race then? Good question, but as Peter in the end addresses them as "brothers" and they address Peter and the apostles as "brothers", that may indicate that they now all go on to belong to the same, new race of humans. Not Israeliets descended from Abraham, not Gentiles descended from other forefathers. A new race with a new descent. From God and Christ, I guess. If one can be "saved from" one's "generation", that means that 'one' no longer takes part in one's fleshly descent?
Are you familiar with Denise Kimber Buell's 'Rethinking the Relevance of Race for Early Christian Self-Definition' (HTR 944, 2001, 449–476)? She reaches very similar conclusions.
DCH
Therefore one can have descent according to the flesh as one is a fleshly being, but one can also have descent according to the spirit, if one is made into a spiritual being by God's spirit, getting spiritual descent from him, being part of his nature. And so that's what the Christians will be at the resurrection, but they are already taking part in this transformation inside their fleshly bodies, when they get the spirit at baptism. As Paul says it is one place: The spirit received at baptism is the "down payment" (αρραβων) for this fuller transformation at the resurrection (2 Cor 5:5).
Is this what Peter is saying here, "save yourselves from this crooked generation"? The conversion with the gift of the spirit is an exit from one's fleshly being, and therefore one's family and descent?