Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

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Secret Alias
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Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

Post by Secret Alias »

others, cast away (As was th' iniquitous rich man, we read, by Lazarus ), are such as have remained exiled, persistent in their stubbornness. Now a veil, hanging in the midst, did both dissever, and had into portions twain divided the one shrine ... In some unknown part there exists a spot open, enjoying its own light; 'tis called "Abraham's bosom; "high above the glooms, and far removed from fire, yet 'neath the earth. The brazen altar this is called, whereon (We have recorded) was a dusky veil. This veil divides both parts, and leaves the one open, from the eternal one distinct in worship and time's usage.

abiectos alios (Lazaro ut dives iniquus), in sua duritie qui permansere repulsi. nam velum in medio pendens ceraebat utrosque inque duas partes aedem diviserat unam, interiora quidem sanctorum sancta vocata ... in parte ignota quidam locus exstat apertus, luce sua fretus; Abrahae sinus iste vocatur, altior a tenebris, longe semotus ab igne, sub terra tamen <est>: haec ara vocatur ahena. in quo velamen pullum memoravimus esse: dividit hoc partes ambas unamque recludit dissitam ab aeterna cultura et temporis usu.
There is a strange discussion of the rich man Lazarus which seems to imply that instead of a 'chasm' (χάσμα) between (μεταξὺ) Jesus and Lazarus and the rich man there was a 'veil' (καταπέτασμα) like the one in the temple. The allegory developed in the poem depends on this being in the Lazarus narrative in order to develop the idea that Jesus came to abolish the curtain and render the house (temple) whole.
καὶ ἐν πᾶσι τούτοις μεταξὺ ἡμῶν καὶ ὑμῶν χάσμα μέγα ἐστήρικται ὅπως οἱ θέλοντες διαβῆναι ἔνθεν πρὸς ὑμᾶς μὴ δύνωνται μηδὲ ἐκεῖθεν πρὸς ἡμᾶς διαπερῶσιν

And besides all these things, a great chasm has been fixed between us and you, so that those desiring to pass from here to you are not able, nor can they pass from there to us.'

καὶ ἐν πᾶσι τούτοις μεταξὺ ἡμῶν καὶ ὑμῶν καταπέτασμα μέγα ἐστήρικται ὅπως οἱ θέλοντες διαβῆναι ἔνθεν πρὸς ὑμᾶς μὴ δύνωνται μηδὲ ἐκεῖθεν πρὸς ἡμᾶς διαπερῶσιν

And besides all these things, a great curtain has been fixed between us and you, so that those desiring to pass from here to you are not able, nor can they pass from there to us.'
Interestingly modern Greek descriptions of the tabernacle use the terminology 'great curtain' to describe the veil:

Περιεστοίχιζε δέ την σκηνήν άπασαν αυλή μεγάλη και ευρύχωρος, καταπέτασμα μέγα προ της εισόδου κρεμάμενον έχουσα.

Also 'great veil' or 'great curtain' is the most common way of describing what divided the inner sanctum of the temple.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

Post by Secret Alias »

The author of the poem seems to have been influenced by Revelation chapter 6 to understand that Luke 16 is taking place under the altar in Jerusalem:
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10 They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11 Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the full number of their fellow servants, their brothers and sisters,[e] were killed just as they had been.
Tertullian makes use of this passage to argue twice in the Resurrection of the Flesh:
Again in the Apocalypse of John the order of the times is laid down. This order, while beneath the altar they cry aloud for vengeance and judgement,4 the souls of the martyrs have learned to wait for, so that first the world may drink up its own plagues from the vials of the angels ... [25]
and again:
They know God badly who think him unable to do what they do not think him able to do. And yet they know he was able, if they know John's document: for God who subjected to view the souls, as yet bodiless, of the martyrs, which were at rest beneath the altar,3 could certainly without flesh have made them evident to men's eyes as they rose again [38]
It is an idea that appears over and over again in Tertullian so Scorpiace:
But the souls of the martyrs both peacefully rest in the meantime under the altar, and support their patience by the assured hope of revenge; and, clothed in their robes, wear the dazzling halo of brightness, until others also may fully share in their glory.
Compare the poem where in no uncertain terms Revelation is used to contextualize Luke's story:
No language can describe, Disciple John,
Testifies that beneath such altar he
Saw souls which had for Christ's name suffered,
Praying the vengeance of the mighty God
Upon their slaughter. There, meantime, is rest.
In some unknown part there exists a spot
Open, enjoying its own light; 'tis called
"Abraham's bosom; "high above the glooms,
And far removed from fire, yet 'neath the earth.
The brazen altar this is called, whereon
(We have recorded) was a dusky veil.
This veil divides both parts, and leaves the one
Open, from the eternal one distinct
In worship and time's usage.
I think the original term 'great curtain' from the temple was replaced by 'great chasm.' No doubt about it.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

Post by Secret Alias »

Indeed the Treatise on the Soul explicitly argues for the same idea:
It, too, has eyes and ears of its own, by means of which Paul must have heard and seen the Lord; it has, moreover all the other members of the body by the help of which it effects all processes of thinking and all activity in dreams. Thus it happens that the rich man in hell has a tongue and poor (Lazarus) a finger and Abraham a bosom. By these features also the souls of the martyrs under the altar are distinguished and known. The soul indeed which in the beginning was associated with Adam's body, which grew with its growth and was moulded after its form proved to be the germ both of the entire substance (of the human soul) and of that (part of) creation.
To this end (a) the Carmen adversus Marcionitas is almost certainly written by Tertullian and (b) the gospel of Luke used by Tertullian read 'great veil' rather than 'great chasm' and placed the narrative specifically under the altar of the temple in Jerusalem. And again later in the same treatise:
but in Paradise, you tell me, whither already the patriarchs and prophets have removed from Hades in the retinue of the Lord's resurrection. How is it, then, that the region of Paradise, which as revealed to John in the Spirit lay under the altar,319 displays no other souls as in it besides the souls of the martyrs? How is it that the most heroic martyr Perpetua on the day of her passion saw only her fellow-martyrs there, in the revelation which she received of Paradise, if it were not that the sword which guarded the entrance permitted none to go in thereat, except those who had died in Christ and not in Adam?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

Post by Secret Alias »

I think the idea is that 'the fire' of Luke 16 where the rich man is, is likened to the brass altar which stood outside the curtained 'holy of holies':

Image

This the topography of what is going on in the underworld. The rich man is being burned alive outside of 'Paradise' - i.e. the curtained 'holy of holies' speaking to Jesus.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
lsayre
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Re: Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

Post by lsayre »

Does this have Gnostic implications, whereby the temple (or the tent that preceded it) foreshadows the underworld? If so, would it be a stretch to presume that the 'redemptive' system established by Moses is a mirror of evil, and not of the good?
Secret Alias
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Re: Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

Post by Secret Alias »

I don't know enough about the gnostic beliefs to make an opinion either way. Would love to hear more about it. I don't even know what this is in the poem. Is it just a mad invention on the part of the poet or does it conform to a different text of Luke.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

Post by Secret Alias »

Interestingly while Tertullian interprets Luke 16 by means of the Book of Revelation Jewish references to the bosom of Abraham seem to infer some connection with metempsychosis:
There is a man named Adda bar Ahava there (in a Babylonian village). Today he is sitting in the lap of Abraham our forefather, since he has just been circumcised. He added: Today Rav Yehuda was born in Babylonia. The Gemara comments: As the Master said: While Rabbi Akiva was dying, Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was born; while Rabbi Yehuda HaNasi was dying, Rav Yehuda was born; while Rav Yehuda was dying, Rava was born; while Rava was dying, Rav Ashi was born. This teaches you that a righteous person does not leave the world before an equally righteous person is created, as it is stated: “The sun also rises and the sun also sets” (Ecclesiastes 1:5). The same applies to earlier generations: Before Eli’s sun had gone out, Samuel the Ramathite’s sun was already rising, as it is stated: “And the lamp of God was not yet gone out, and Samuel was lying in the Temple of the Lord” (I Samuel 3:3), which teaches that Samuel was already prophesying in the days of Eli. [Kiddushin 72b]
The idea seems to be connected with the rich man's request that Jesus sends someone to his brothers to warn them of the hereafter. Note the earliest known Jewish reference to Abraham's role in the afterlife in Genesis Rabba:
R. Levi said; In the Hereafter Abraham will sit at the entrance to Gehenna, and permit no circumcised Israelite to descend therein. What then will he do to those who have sinned very much? He will remove the foreskin from babes who died before circumcision and set it upon them [the sinners], and then let them descend into Gehenna ...
The idea seems to be that Gehenna is a reward of sorts for Jews. Note the Marcionite 'Mark' and his discussion with Adamantius:
MK. Abraham is said to be in Hades, not in the Kingdom of Heaven.
AD. Please read that it does not say Abraham was in Hades.
MK. The rich man's conversation with him shows where they were.
AD. You heard them talking with one another, but did you not hear the great chasm mentioned? The intervening space between heaven and earth he calls a chasm.
MK. Can anyone, then, see from the earth to Heaven? That is impossible! It would, however, be possible for someone to lift his eyes and see from earth — or even from Hades — into Heaven, were it not certain that a great space lies between them!
AD. The bodily eyes have been formed to see only things that are very near, but the spiritual ones stretch out into the distance, and it is evident that with the body laid aside, the rich man and Abraham see one another with the eyes of the soul. Note how the Gospel says, "Lifting up his eyes," [the rich man "saw Abraham". Without doubt, he who lifts up his eyes]39 naturally lifts them up towards Heaven, and not towards the earth.
Yet the Carmen adversus Marcionitas clearly envisions the same situation as being dismissed here. Lazarus is under the altar at Jerusalem and thus is looking up at a Paradise which is either in Sheol (the Marcionites) or on the earth presumably but not in heaven.
Last edited by Secret Alias on Sun Oct 21, 2018 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
Posts: 18362
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Re: Strange Lukan Textual Variant in Carmen adversus Marcionitas

Post by Secret Alias »

It is also worth noting that when Christians speak of the 'altar' they mean 'table' - τράπεζα. So when we read:
The inner parts
Were called "Holies of holiest" Stationed there
An altar shone, noble with gold ... covered wholly o'er
With lambs'skins dyed with heaven's hue; within
Gold-clad; and all between of wood ... And over it-in uniformity
Fourfold-the cherubim their pinions spread
cf. Numbers 4:
When the camp prepares to journey, Aaron and his sons shall come, and they shall take down the covering veil and cover the ark of the Testimony with it. Then they shall put on it a covering of badger skins, and spread over that a cloth entirely of blue; and they shall insert its poles. "On the table of showbread they shall spread a blue cloth, and put on it the dishes, the pans, the bowls, and the pitchers for pouring; and the showbread shall be on it. They shall spread over them a scarlet cloth, and cover the same with a covering of badger skins; and they shall insert its poles.
So again the dead I believe were understood to be under this τράπεζα. Strange geography. Note that Tertullian - like the surviving Ethiopian churches the altar (= table) is placed to the East, and it is in that direction that priests normally pray with some association of Eden/Paradise.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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