Why Marcion lost

[Giuseppe]

A rapid list of options in order of priority :

1) because the "historical Jesus" was more concrete (for the stupid hoi polloi) insofar was a real Jew from Judea and not a hologram.

2) because the Romans loved the prophecies and who was predicted by old scriptures (not decisively the marcionite Christ)

3) because of the marcionite "buddhism" in terms of sexual abstinence, etc.

Other causes?

[GakuseiDon]

1) because the "historical Jesus" was more concrete (for the stupid hoi polloi) insofar was a real Jew from Judea and not a hologram.

I wonder if this would have mattered in the Second Century when Marcion was active. Is there evidence that the people in the Second Century would have preferred a 'fleshy' Jesus to a docetic one?

[Irish1975]

Because a god conceived as both creator and savior is more gratifying to the religious instincts of most people?

[Giuseppe]

1) because the "historical Jesus" was more concrete (for the stupid hoi polloi) insofar was a real Jew from Judea and not a hologram.

I wonder if this would have mattered in the Second Century when Marcion was active. Is there evidence that the people in the Second Century would have preferred a 'fleshy' Jesus to a docetic one?

Tacitus reports the prevalent Christian information about Jesus: that Jesus was a real Jew crucified by Romans. Surely an information derived from not-docetic Christians.

In addition, Celsus seems to describe a situation where the proto-catholics are more than docetics and the various many gnostic sects in number.

[Giuseppe]

Because a god conceived as both creator and savior is more gratifying to the religious instincts of most people?

Surely for the Celsus, yes, insofar he adores the creator.

[perseusomega9]

Because in orthodox christianity you're allowed to fuck

[Ben C. Smith]

Because in orthodox christianity you're allowed to fuck

A possibility not to be underestimated.

Also, lots of people in antiquity respected ancient religions, the older the better. Claiming that one's God was a new revelation was not a great way to tap into this "cult of the old," while claiming to be the rightful spiritual heirs of an ancient religion like Judaism might have painted a prettier picture. Jewish theologians had put a lot of work into demonstrating (whether correctly or incorrectly) the antiquity of Judaism in comparison to other groups, especially the Greeks, and (proto-)orthodox Christianity was able to take advantage of that work by treating their savior as the Christ expected by the Jewish prophets.

[Secret Alias]

I think the Marcionite lay church (pardon the pun) were free and encouraged to multiply. They were in all things closely related to the Old Latin. Only the priests and the catechumen had (castration assisted) celibacy

[perseusomega9]

I don't understand about celibacy and catecbumens, how do you get lay people who can marry if the y weren't catechumens first?

[robert j]

Also, lots of people in antiquity respected ancient religions, the older the better. Claiming that one's God was a new revelation was not a great way to tap into this "cult of the old," while claiming to be the rightful spiritual heirs of an ancient religion like Judaism might have painted a prettier picture. Jewish theologians had put a lot of work into demonstrating (whether correctly or incorrectly) the antiquity of Judaism in comparison to other groups, especially the Greeks, and (proto-)orthodox Christianity was able to take advantage of that work by treating their savior as the Christ expected by the Jewish prophets.

I think Ben nailed it here. Two significant factors in favor of the proto-orthodox --- the ancient roots and the foundation of the Jewish scriptures.

Sure, apparently, the Marcionites didn’t deny or outright reject the Jewish scriptures. But rather they saw them, with literal readings, as the record of the inferior, inconsistent, judgmental, and violent creator-god, the god of the Jews --- and not the record of their higher, benevolent, and previously unknown god recently revealed by his son Jesus.

It’s like a game of poker ---

Marcionites: I’ll bet ten epistles of Paul and a Gospel story
Proto-orthodox: I’ll raise you some more epistles, more Gospel stories, and the ancient scrolls of Jerusalem.

It’s a bet the Marcionites couldn’t match.

The Marcionites had a new god without a solid foundation. The proto-orthodox had a new twist on an ancient religion --- making it easy for Gentiles to fully participate with God's chosen people of Israel without all the rituals --- and they had a solid, widely respected, and ancient foundation with the Jewish scriptures.

In addition, the proto-orthodox had a mystical twist with the ancient scrolls of Jerusalem with their allegorical, typological and figurative readings that foretold the coming of Jesus Christ.