Loaves and Fishes

[neilgodfrey]

[Precession is not really that complicated.

It is even less complicated with the cosmology of the ancients than with our modern understanding of the earth's orbit. To the ancients it was simply a movement of the gods in the sky from one chair to the next.

[Robert Tulip]

[

Christian eschatology, with its temporal theory of a 7000 year structure of fall and redemption, matches precisely to the actual fall and rise of the precession cycle.

I do not see how this is possible. Are you referring to the 2,150 year cycle? If a Bible year was 7000 years, which I think is slightly ridiculous.

No one says a “Bible year” was 7000 years. The traditional picture from the Church Fathers is that the whole of history from creation to redemption was imagined as lasting 7000 years. They matched this against the seven days of creation in Genesis, using the day-millennium equation from Psalm 90, to portray 6000 years of work and 1000 years of rest.

For example, the Second Century text the Epistle of Barnabas 15:4 says: “‘God made in 6 days the works of his hands, and made an end on the 7th day, and rested on it, and sanctified it’. This implies that the Lord will finish all things in 6000 years, for a day is with Him a thousand years…‘He rested on the 7th day’ means when His Son shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the 7th day”.

So how does this framework of 7000 years, generally understood as from about 4000 BC to 3000 AD, relate to precession? There are four different age periods which relate to the precession cycle. Firstly, 2160 years is the main traditional estimate, as a round number keying in to the sexagesimal system. Secondly, the actual period of a zodiac age is 2147.5 years, based on NASA data. This is close to the often quoted 2150 year round number you cited. Thirdly, Vedic sources indicate an estimate of 2000 years for a zodiac age, based on the ancient Hindu text, the Laws of Manu idea of 12,000 years of ascent followed by 12,000 years of descent. Fourthly, apsidal precession gives an age period of 1800 years.

The round number estimate of 2000 years for an age produces the 7000 year period as matching 3.5 ages, as well as the idea that the holy city (an allegory for precession) is 12,000 units from side to side. Against ages of 2000 years in duration, the 7000 years matches the concept of tribulation in the Apocalypse as referring to the entire period from fall to redemption. Revelation 12:14 and Daniel 7:25 discuss a period of ‘time, times and half a time’ of the tribulation. The tribulation is put at 3.5 years (from Rev 11:2, 12:14, 13:5). However, if we use the model of temporal transposition seen in the day-millennium equation, it makes sense to see this discussion of years as standing for ages. If the ‘time’ is an age of 2000 years, 3.5 times is 7000 years. This involves seeing the fall from grace as initiating a long period of difficulty, aligned to the Biblical idea of tribulation. This argument requires assessment of the competing historical theories of progress and apocalytics.

Why would this transposition from years to ages be likely? Basically, this framework directly aligns to scientific reality, which we can see by looking at the climatic pattern of precession. This brings us to the fourth precession period, 1800 years, which is one twelfth of the real dynamic orbital precession period of 21,600 years formed by the spin wobble and apsidal shift. For the entirety of the four billion years of life on earth, this pattern has been a principal driver of climate change. In Biblical times, the most rapid period of descent matches to the mythical time imagined as the fall from grace in 4000 BC, while the period after Christ marks a shift from climatic descent to ascent.

Sorry Robert you will have to explain your math or point me to your source. Thanks.

The clearest depiction of this actual pattern of climatic fall and recovery on the eschatological timeframe of millennia is at apsidal precession. The point at perihelion marks the position in the cycle indicated by Christian eschatology, just within the truncated 7000 year section from fall to winter rebirth.

The direct correlation between the real scientific cycles and the imagined Biblical framework is strong, justifying placement of the Bible ideas against this real climatic pattern. It is not relevant if and how the authors were aware of this modern scientific understanding. What is relevant is that their mythic framework matches the science, however that might have happened, so the science helps us to understand the meaning of the myth of Christ.

[The Crow]

Appreciate it Robert..Did some research on it myself.

[neilgodfrey]

It is not relevant if and how the authors were aware of this modern scientific understanding. What is relevant is that their mythic framework matches the science, however that might have happened, so the science helps us to understand the meaning of the myth of Christ.

Which is another way of saying that the "myth of Christ" is found in modern scientific understanding of the universe. That is, what is at stake here is the preaching of a religious belief system, a type of pantheism, perhaps. It preaches doctrines of salvation and damnation, too, but by ingesting mythical or religious or spiritual meanings of some sort into scientific observations, and declaring that these meanings are the revelation of the universe itself.

New religions traditionally like to claim antiquity for their authority and that is why the need to find this religion embedded in or ultimately behind the historical pathways of Christianity and pre-Christian religions.

Astrotheology is as the term suggests a theological system.

[The Crow]

It is not relevant if and how the authors were aware of this modern scientific understanding. What is relevant is that their mythic framework matches the science, however that might have happened, so the science helps us to understand the meaning of the myth of Christ.

Which is another way of saying that the "myth of Christ" is found in modern scientific understanding of the universe. That is, what is at stake here is the preaching of a religious belief system, a type of pantheism, perhaps. It preaches doctrines of salvation and damnation, too, but by ingesting mythical or religious or spiritual meanings of some sort into scientific observations, and declaring that these meanings are the revelation of the universe itself.

New religions traditionally like to claim antiquity for their authority and that is why the need to find this religion embedded in or ultimately behind the historical pathways of Christianity and pre-Christian religions.

Astrotheology is as the term suggests a theological system.

Astrotheology is as the term suggests a theological system.

In that it is a worship of the heavens so I guess in that sense your right Neil. Jordan Maxwell claims that no ancient people believed the Sun to be God. He makes what he considers to be two important points:

First, with the exception of Japan, the ancient world mythologies always understood the Sun to be masculine in qualities, and the moon feminine.
Second, the English language is derived from the German. In the Germanic, the word 'Sun' is spelled 'Sonne'.

http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/bibli ... zar_41.htm

What is interesting is that I have read that all churches faces East. The "Sun" rises in the East. Coincidence?

[SpiritofLife]

In Mark Creflo Dollar preached the loaves then Jesus told the disciples to get into the boat an go to the other side. The contrary winds worked against the will of God to go to the other side. Now my point is this, there is a connection to the loaves and calming contrary winds and spirits opposing us. Some where around verse 50 Jesus steps into the boat and says "Be of good cheer", then Mark comments, makes a judgment, concludes, assigns the meaning that because of the hardness of their hearts, they did not understand the loaves. Implying that a number of things could have happened in their favor, had not their hearts been hardened, being able to have the power of understanding the loaves. Really, until you have the heart issue right you will never understand the loaves. I believe it is possible as Mark implies to have a believing heart; as one who was not there, he is but recounting the story that was told to him. As he is not one of the twelve apostles, he was told and knew the story and implying the Power. Mark speaks as one who understood the loaves. If the disciples understood the loaves they could have spoke to the wind to change it's direction, lifted the sail and not paddled at all. Once Jesus was in the boat, they did not paddle to the other side. So for me, I ask the Father, Mother, Son, the Perfect Power to heal my soul from sin, cleans my heart from unbelief, that I would have the Power of understanding the loaves. Jesus is YHWH, God of Yeshua, the good God, who freed, discharged us, from the law of sin and death; give us, send us the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation that we might know the Power of understanding the Loaves. YHWH Save us, YHWH help us. We say being of good cheer, confidently, The Lord is my helper. We seek first the Kingdom of God with Power, signs and wonders that people would see the Glory in Jesus.

We invoke the Triple Powered Luminaries from the Barbelo Aeon, bring us Blessedness, Vitality,Existence, being prepared to receive the Holy Power of Understanding, Grace, Perception, Consideration. We invoke the imparted illumination to receive the Holy Power, for Your Kingdom. Invisible, Perfect Virginal Spirit of Life, we love and serve only You, revealed to us as The Father, Mother, Son. Your Kingdom Has come, Your will is done. Yours is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory, Eternal.
We ask this in the name of Jesus the male power who saved us from our imperfect creation of Sophia acting without you, female only. Free from the evil god of the law of sin and death. Completing the sacrament of marriage, perfected in the bridal chamber, you invite us to enter in. By faith in the shed blood we enter through the veil, Christ's broken body. At the right side of Christ, seated with Him there is knowledge, we know you and the Power of your resurrection, we receive it with confidence.

Born again by incorruptible seed by the womb of the universe; being raised with Christ in Power, whole and complete a new man, having the form of Godliness and the Power of Godliness. In the true likeness of immortal Man, the image of the first immortal Human. We are the children, a child of the Father, Mother, being the brother of Jesus, through faith. The Righteousness of faith speaks the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. Righteousness of faith speak understanding the loaves to my heart and mouth. faith come by hearing, and hearing by the rhema word of God. We refuse not, the voice that speaks from heaven. We believe we receive by faith, in the voice of the righteousness of faith, being the God of Jesus.

[The Crow]

In Mark Creflo Dollar preached the loaves then Jesus told the disciples to get into the boat an go to the other side. The contrary winds worked against the will of God to go to the other side. Now my point is this, there is a connection to the loaves and calming contrary winds and spirits opposing us. Some where around verse 50 Jesus steps into the boat and says "Be of good cheer", then Mark comments, makes a judgment, concludes, assigns the meaning that because of the hardness of their hearts, they did not understand the loaves. Implying that a number of things could have happened in their favor, had not their hearts been hardened, being able to have the power of understanding the loaves. Really, until you have the heart issue right you will never understand the loaves. I believe it is possible as Mark implies to have a believing heart; as one who was not there, he is but recounting the story that was told to him. As he is not one of the twelve apostles, he was told and knew the story and implying the Power. Mark speaks as one who understood the loaves. If the disciples understood the loaves they could have spoke to the wind to change it's direction, lifted the sail and not paddled at all. Once Jesus was in the boat, they did not paddle to the other side. So for me, I ask the Father, Mother, Son, the Perfect Power to heal my soul from sin, cleans my heart from unbelief, that I would have the Power of understanding the loaves. Jesus is YHWH, God of Yeshua, the good God, who freed, discharged us, from the law of sin and death; give us, send us the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation that we might know the Power of understanding the Loaves. YHWH Save us, YHWH help us. We say being of good cheer, confidently, The Lord is my helper. We seek first the Kingdom of God with Power, signs and wonders that people would see the Glory in Jesus.

We invoke the Triple Powered Luminaries from the Barbelo Aeon, bring us Blessedness, Vitality,Existence, being prepared to receive the Holy Power of Understanding, Grace, Perception, Consideration. We invoke the imparted illumination to receive the Holy Power, for Your Kingdom. Invisible, Perfect Virginal Spirit of Life, we love and serve only You, revealed to us as The Father, Mother, Son. Your Kingdom Has come, Your will is done. Yours is the Kingdom and the Power and the Glory, Eternal.
We ask this in the name of Jesus the male power who saved us from our imperfect creation of Sophia acting without you, female only. Free from the evil god of the law of sin and death. Completing the sacrament of marriage, perfected in the bridal chamber, you invite us to enter in. By faith in the shed blood we enter through the veil, Christ's broken body. At the right side of Christ, seated with Him there is knowledge, we know you and the Power of your resurrection, we receive it with confidence.

Born again by incorruptible seed by the womb of the universe; being raised with Christ in Power, whole and complete a new man, having the form of Godliness and the Power of Godliness. In the true likeness of immortal Man, the image of the first immortal Human. We are the children, a child of the Father, Mother, being the brother of Jesus, through faith. The Righteousness of faith speaks the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart. Righteousness of faith speak understanding the loaves to my heart and mouth. faith come by hearing, and hearing by the rhema word of God. We refuse not, the voice that speaks from heaven. We believe we receive by faith, in the voice of the righteousness of faith, being the God of Jesus.

Nice long post but what are you getting at? This sounds more to me like preaching. And what exactly does it have to do with Astrotheology? I think you have missed the point of the whole thread. Either that or you could not prevent the urge to spam the board.

[SpiritofLife]

And what exactly does it have to do with Astrotheology?
Yeshua, Jesus say in John 8, I am from my Father above, you are of your father the devil, there is good and evil. Jesus said, you search the scriptures thinking you will find life but the life is in me. My point, if you search the stars for life without having and knowing the Spirit of Life and the Power of Life, you have only sin and death. The Aeons, the principalities and powers in heavenly, high places are real. We wrestle against, war against these powers. Yeshua, YHVH raised from the dead is the power above every name, dominion, principality, that can be named. The power of spirit of death has been crushed for those who believe and confess Jesus is Lord, believing in their heart that God raised Him from the dead. Astrotheology is not out side the Spirit realm of the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation. Because of their unbelief they did not consider God as the Source of Understanding.
The Secret book of John gives an account of Grace creation different than the Law of Moses account. The Kingdom of YHVH is here, it is now. Repent, Metanoia, have a change of mind, a transformation. The Kingdom of Heaven is open. The cherub, can be a vehicle of transport, Cherubim and Seriphim are inter dimensional. The heavens and the earth, the Father, the Mother, the Son rule the Kingdom of Light. I saw in Mark 6 that a hard heart will keep you from understanding the loaves; if I don't understand the loaves, how will I understand the universe. Even Einstein talked about the mind of the scientist affecting the outcome of experiments. The voice of our Source is speaking to our thoughts. Are we listening to the voice from heaven? Our spirits have power, limited by our understanding. Astrotheology, with out the resurrection power of Christ has no power for life, or true understanding power. Sin and death is a power. The Law of the Spirit of Life has made me free from the law of sin and death. These are spiritual laws that control the universe. When I find some one who understands the loaves, there will be power, signs and wonders. Until then, it's just a bunch of guys with hard hearts who do not understand Grace and Truth. YHVH save us, YHVH help us, in the name of Jesus Yeshua.

[The Crow]

And what exactly does it have to do with Astrotheology?
Yeshua, Jesus say in John 8, I am from my Father above, you are of your father the devil, there is good and evil. Jesus said, you search the scriptures thinking you will find life but the life is in me. My point, if you search the stars for life without having and knowing the Spirit of Life and the Power of Life, you have only sin and death. The Aeons, the principalities and powers in heavenly, high places are real. We wrestle against, war against these powers. Yeshua, YHVH raised from the dead is the power above every name, dominion, principality, that can be named. The power of spirit of death has been crushed for those who believe and confess Jesus is Lord, believing in their heart that God raised Him from the dead. Astrotheology is not out side the Spirit realm of the Spirit of Wisdom and Revelation. Because of their unbelief they did not consider God as the Source of Understanding.
The Secret book of John gives an account of Grace creation different than the Law of Moses account. The Kingdom of YHVH is here, it is now. Repent, Metanoia, have a change of mind, a transformation. The Kingdom of Heaven is open. The cherub, can be a vehicle of transport, Cherubim and Seriphim are inter dimensional. The heavens and the earth, the Father, the Mother, the Son rule the Kingdom of Light. I saw in Mark 6 that a hard heart will keep you from understanding the loaves; if I don't understand the loaves, how will I understand the universe. Even Einstein talked about the mind of the scientist affecting the outcome of experiments. The voice of our Source is speaking to our thoughts. Are we listening to the voice from heaven? Our spirits have power, limited by our understanding. Astrotheology, with out the resurrection power of Christ has no power for life, or true understanding power. Sin and death is a power. The Law of the Spirit of Life has made me free from the law of sin and death. These are spiritual laws that control the universe. When I find some one who understands the loaves, there will be power, signs and wonders. Until then, it's just a bunch of guys with hard hearts who do not understand Grace and Truth. YHVH save us, YHVH help us, in the name of Jesus Yeshua.

Still preaching and sermonizing in my book.

[SpiritofLife]

Well I will fast and pray and see if can find some answers to understanding the loaves from the voice of the Father, since no one hear seems to know much more than relating everything to preaching and sermonizing.