gmx wrote: ↑Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:01 pm
As I have said in multiple places recently, I have doubts that the writings of Papias contained explanations of the sayings of Jesus. I don't believe we have, in the limited quotations available, any such example, which I find somewhat curious.
I am aware of a couple of reported sayings about a superabundant earthly kingdom with prime real estate:
Irenaeus
AH 5.33.3: [Papias says Jesus spoke of] "The days will come, in which vines shall grow, each having ten thousand branches, and in each branch ten thousand twigs, and in each true twig ten thousand shoots, and in each one of the shoots ten thousand dusters, and on every one of the clusters ten thousand grapes, and every grape when pressed will give five and twenty metretes of wine. And when any one of the saints shall lay hold of a cluster, another shall cry out, "I am a better cluster, take me; bless the Lord through me."
In like manner [the Lord declared] that a grain of wheat would produce ten thousand ears, and that every ear should have ten thousand grains, and every grain would yield ten pounds (quinque bilibres) of clear, pure, fine flour; and that all other fruit-bearing trees, and seeds and grass, would produce in similar proportions (secundum congruentiam iis consequentem); "
The similarity to the text of 2 Baruch 2:5 is close: "The earth also shall yield its fruit ten thousandfold, and on each (?)vine there shall be a thousand branches, and each branch shall produce a thousand clusters, and each cluster produce a thousand grapes, and each grape produce a cor of wine."
Irenaeus 5.36. "1 And as the presbyters say, Then those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven shall go there, others shall enjoy the delights of paradise, and others shall possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour shall be seen according as they who see Him shall be worthy.
2 [They say, moreover], that there is this distinction between the habitation of those who produce an hundred-fold, and that of those who produce sixty-fold, and that of those who produce thirty-fold: for the first will be taken up into the heavens, the second will dwell in paradise, the last will inhabit the city; and that was on this account the Lord declared, "In My Father's house are many mansions."
2 Enoch 61: "1 And now, my children, keep your hearts from every injustice, which the Lord hates. just as a man asks ([sc.] something) for his own
2 soul from God, so let him do to every living soul, because I know all things, how in the great time ([sc.] to come) are many mansions prepared for men, good for the good, and bad for the bad, without number many.
3 Blessed are those who enter the good houses, for in the bad ([sc.] houses) there is no peace nor return ([sc.] from them)."
Seems that these apocryphal texts could represent concepts that were common oral stories, maybe not spoken by Jesus but popular beliefs about the messianic age among segments of the population, that came to the attention of Papias. Papias seemed to be reacting to the appearance of written "gospels," not agreeing with the way that they made Jesus appear to be a tragic hero whose death was actually an act of vicarious atonement, rather than as a prophet of a superabundant future messianic age as predicted by Hebrew scriptures.
Those guys ...
DCH