Revelation 1:5 New International Version (NIV)
5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.
Colossians 1:18
18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.
Rev 1:18
I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades
Was Jesus the first Man in absolute terms to know the death?
If the answer is yes, then Jesus died before any human being.
Before Adam himself.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'When you enter the land which I am going to give to you and reap its harvest, then you shall bring in the sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. Now on the day when you wave the sheaf you shall offer a male lamb one year old without defect for a burnt offering to the Lord. Its grain offering shall then be two tenths of an ephah of fine flour mixed with oil an offering by fire to the Lord for a soothing aroma, with its libation, a fourth of a hin of wine. Until this same day, until you have brought in the offering of your God, you shall eat neither bread nor roasted grain nor new growth. It is to be a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwelling places' " (Leviticus [Vayikra] 23:9-14 NAS). http://www.mayimhayim.org/Festivals/Feast5.htm
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.
If Jesus filled already the whole universe before the his death, then just the his death is what gave rise to the world. So his death has to precede the creation. Therefore in that sense he should be the firstborn of the dead.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:38 am
Ephesians 4:10
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.
If Jesus filled already the whole universe before the his death, then just the his death is what gave rise to the world. So his death has to precede the creation. Therefore in that sense he should be the firstborn of the dead.
Andrew is correct upthread: and the order is death, descent, ascent/resurrection/firstborn from the dead, filling all.
Are you ignoring the fact that, per Eph. 4:10, before the death, the Son was exactly identical to himself after the Resurrection: as filling the whole universe?
The keys of Hades can be gained by being the first being to enter in it and to exit from it.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Ben, I may be misreading but I should still see a case for Jesus not being crucified before the creation of the world, in the pauline epistles and Apocalypse.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:38 am
Ephesians 4:10
He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.
If Jesus filled already the whole universe before the his death, then just the his death is what gave rise to the world. So his death has to precede the creation. Therefore in that sense he should be the firstborn of the dead. .
nb. " ... who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe".
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:47 am
Andrew is correct upthread: and the order is death, descent, ascent/resurrection/firstborn from the dead, filling all.
Isn't the order: .. death, .. resurrection, appear [descend?] / first born from the dead, .. ascend ./. [filling all*] .. ??
* 'filling all' could apply to the appearance after the resurrection (?)
