What is a Jewish Christian? (For robert j)

[John2]

I would say it is as redundant to say "Jewish Christian" as it would be to say "Jewish Fourth Philosopher"; of course they were Jewish. But whatever you call them, I see them as being Jews (of the Fourth Philosophic variety) who believed in observing the Torah and that Jesus was the Messiah.

I think a better term that I see used now and then would be "Christian Jew." In my view, saying "Christian Jew" is similar to saying "Rabbanite Jew" or "Karaite Jew." James and Peter were "Christian Jews," as was Paul. But Paul's negation of the Torah made him a renegade Christian Jew, one who was not in line with early Christian leaders (or with Jesus, to judge from the gospels, e,g,, Mt. 5:19).

And the fact that "Christian Jews" reached out to Gentiles who eventually overwhelmingly followed Paul's Torah-free gospel instead of a Torah-observant one has made it necessary to distinguish between this version of Christian Judaism and the Torah-keeping Christian Judaism of James and Peter. So even though Paul was a "Jewish Christian" too, in the sense that he believed that Jesus was the Messiah and was resurrected and such, he wasn't a "Jewish Christian" in the sense of being like James and Peter regarding Torah observance.

[John2]

Here's an interesting article by an ex-Messianic Jew that discusses the differences between Paul and "Jewish Christians" (which I more or less agree with excepting the early dating and dismissal of Acts, which I view as being relatively late, around the mid-second century CE, but nevertheless quite useful, though I used to be just as dismissive of it as the writer):

Numerous excuses for Paul are offered by messianics (who prefer to see Paul as “rabbi Shaul”) these days and I’ve heard them all (and even used them myself in my messianic days). “It’s not Torah that Paul meant, it’s “law of sin”. Or, “it’s not Torah, it’s the Jewish “legalism” he was against”, or “law of Christ is Torah too”, etc. Even if Paul somehow didn’t mean what he said, the way he said it is how his later disciples came to understand him ...

Reading Paul’s own words in the NT is the best starting point to judge his true views on Torah. I used to make excuses for him in my messianic days, even when what he clearly wrote couldn’t have come from a pen of a Torah-observant, faithful Jew. His comparison of the Mosaic Covenant to Hagar, slavery and those who are under it to slaves (Galatians 4:22-26) alone should give any thinking person a pause.

And how about another Paul’s favorite of mine:

“We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. (2 Corinthians 3:14)

Here Paul not only completely re-interprets (is this another “midrash” of his?) the true reason why Moses covered his face (when the Torah plainly tells us that it glowed after he just came from G-d’s presence) as being one of the signs of passing away of the Mosaic Covenant (even though G-d just instituted it), but actually insists that Jews are blinded by the same covenant at the very moment G-d made it with them. The Jews are blind, according to Paul, even when they read “the old covenant” (by which he probably means Torah, I suppose, but that’s how Christians came to see Torah, as “old”) and that only Jesus can take away the Jewish blinders. The theme of “blind Jews” was common all throughout the Christian history and to this very day, we have Paul to thank for that ...

I think that messianics who today wish to whitewash Paul and his deeds live in an imaginary world where Christianity never happened and where Paul was a great Torah teacher faithful to Judaism, “rabbi Shaul”. The reality is quite different. Paul probably founded hundreds of churches throughout the Asia Minor as well as in Europe and influenced their theology in every way. What did he teach them and how is it that they suddenly forget everything about the greatness of Torah and Judaism after Paul died? But we do know what he taught them, since we can read his lessons for them in the NT. He taught them that while Jews were useful and may convert to his Christ-faith one day (even though the true “seed” of Abraham was Jesus and not “seeds”, that is Jews as Paul “midrashed”), they were lost, they were blind, and they were slaves to Torah and Mosaic Covenant. More importantly, we know how quickly all of his churches turned anti-Jewish and anti-Torah. And guess what – at every turn it was Paul’s own writings that were used to justify all of it. We have observable history to examine of how Paul’s churches turned out in the long run, not theories of Paul’s modern apologists. Perhaps we should judge Paul and the effects of Paul’s teachings using Jesus’ own standard: “by their fruit you will recognize them.”

https://dailyminyan.com/2015/12/28/apos ... bbi-shaul/