Clementines Seem to Echo the Emperor Julian

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Secret Alias
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Clementines Seem to Echo the Emperor Julian

Post by Secret Alias »

Homilies 16:8

And Simon said: My original stipulation with you was that I should prove from the Scriptures that you were wrong in maintaining that we ought not to speak of many gods. Accordingly I adduced many written passages to show that the divine Scriptures themselves speak of many gods. And Peter said: Those very Scriptures which speak of many gods, also exhorted us, saying, 'The names of other gods shall not ascend upon your lips.' Thus, Simon, I did not speak contrary to what was written. And Simon said: Do you, Peter, listen to what I have to say. You seem to me to sin in speaking against them, when the Scripture says, 'You shall not revile the gods, nor curse the rulers of your people.' And Peter said: I am not sinning, Simon, in pointing out their destruction according to the Scriptures; for thus it is written: 'Let the gods who did not make the heavens and the earth perish.' And He said thus, not as though some had made the heavens and were not to perish, as you interpreted the passage. For it is plainly declared that He who made them is one in the very first part of Scripture: 'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And it did not say, 'the gods.' And somewhere else it says, 'And the firmament shows His handiwork.' And in another place it is written, 'The heavens themselves shall perish, but You shall remain forever.'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Stuart
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Re: Clementines Seem to Echo the Emperor Julian

Post by Stuart »

This is worth noting. Of course the quotes attributed to Julian are probably more associated with the movement he represented, as he held the throne but three short years and was engaged for much of it in war.

The time frame, if such were a source is 360-363 AD, or the later part of the 4th century. The homilies are generally considered earlier than the recognitions.

I think they started from early sources as an answer to Mani, with Simon taking his rhetoric from that movement, as the theology is very close to what was reported about Manicheanism. This association would explain the explosion in literature and mentions of Simon at the end of the 3rd century and well into the 4th and perhaps 5th century. (It is one of the elements I think was interpolated into both Justin and Irenaeus by a 5th century collector/editor; which would explain Simoni Deo Sancto confusion with Semo Sancus ... it is impossible to believe 2nd century or even early 3rd century writers could make such a mistake; it points to a date after 395 AD, and location in the east)
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift
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