Hi Bernard,
I am not so sure that when you remove the extraordinary elements from Jack and the Beanstalk, you get nothing. Here is the earlier known story recorded by Joseph Jacobs in 1860:
"There was once upon a time a poor widow who had an only son named Jack, and a cow named Milky-White. And all they had to live on was the milk the cow gave every morning, which they carried to the market and sold. But one morning Milky-White gave no milk, and they didn't know what to do."
There is nothing unbelievable about a poor widow living with her son and owning a single cow. Nor is there anything unusual about the cow no longer giving milk.
"What shall we do, what shall we do?" said the widow, wringing her hands.
"Cheer up, mother, I'll go and get work somewhere," said Jack.
"We've tried that before, and nobody would take you," said his mother. "We must sell Milky-White and with the money start a shop, or something."
"All right, mother," says Jack. "It's market day today, and I'll soon sell Milky-White, and then we'll see what we can do."
The dialogue here seems quite believable. The only solution is to sell the cow.
So he took the cow's halter in his hand, and off he started. He hadn't gone far when he met a funny-looking old man, who said to him, "Good morning, Jack."
"Good morning to you," said Jack, and wondered how he knew his name.
"Well, Jack, and where are you off to?" said the man.
"I'm going to market to sell our cow there."
"Oh, you look the proper sort of chap to sell cows," said the man. "I wonder if you know how many beans make five."
"Two in each hand and one in your mouth," says Jack, as sharp as a needle.
"Right you are," says the man, "and here they are, the very beans themselves," he went on, pulling out of his pocket a number of strange-looking beans. "As you are so sharp," says he, "I don't mind doing a swap with you -- your cow for these beans."
"Go along," says Jack. "Wouldn't you like it?"
"Ah! You don't know what these beans are," said the man. "If you plant them overnight, by morning they grow right up to the sky."
"Really?" said Jack. "You don't say so."
"Yes, that is so. And if it doesn't turn out to be true you can have your cow back."
"Right," says Jack, and hands him over Milky-White's halter and pockets the beans.
The supernatural element here is the beans. However if we substitute stock certificates instead of beans, we get a rather typical case of a young man being swindled out of something valuable for something of little value. There is nothing unusual about this. In fact, I get phone calls on a regular basis by people wanting to sell me stocks in Texas oil wells and natural gas companies with the promise that their value is about to go up to the sky. The money-back guarantee is still used in many swindles today.
Back goes Jack home, and as he hadn't gone very far it wasn't dusk by the time he got to his door.
"Back already, Jack?" said his mother. "I see you haven't got Milky-White, so you've sold her. How much did you get for her?"
"You'll never guess, mother," says Jack.
"No, you don't say so. Good boy! Five pounds? Ten? Fifteen? No, it can't be twenty."
"I told you you couldn't guess. What do you say to these beans? They're magical. Plant them overnight and -- "
"What!" says Jack's mother. "Have you been such a fool, such a dolt, such an idiot, as to give away my Milky-White, the best milker in the parish, and prime beef to boot, for a set of paltry beans? Take that! Take that! Take that! And as for your precious beans here they go out of the window. And now off with you to bed. Not a sup shall you drink, and not a bit shall you swallow this very night."
So Jack went upstairs to his little room in the attic, and sad and sorry he was, to be sure, as much for his mother's sake as for the loss of his supper.
At last he dropped off to sleep.
When he woke up, the room looked so funny. The sun was shining into part of it, and yet all the rest was quite dark and shady. So Jack jumped up and dressed himself and went to the window. And what do you think he saw? Why, the beans his mother had thrown out of the window into the garden had sprung up into a big beanstalk which went up and up and up till it reached the sky. So the man spoke truth after all.
The mother's anger at Jack for being swindled seems entirely justified. Who hasn't been punished by a parent or spouse for doing something stupid? The rest of the story can be read as a fantasy dream on the part of Jack. He simply dreams that the beans really are magic. It is no different then people who buy lottery tickets and dream of how their lives will change once they spend the money. I don't see how this differs much from the fantasy of Jesus returning from the dead.
We can say that there are far fewer supernatural elements in
Jack and the Beanstalk than in the Jesus story and when they are removed the story is far more common and more likely to be based on an actual historical incident than the Gospel stories.
Bernard_Muller wrote:That is why I doubt that the story of Jack and the Beanstalk is a myth.
If you take all the extraordinary elements in the story of Jack and the Beanstalk, you have nothing left.
However if you do the same thing on Jesus' story from gMark, and even take out some more, what is left is enough (with the historical, political & religious context) to explain how this Jesus triggered the beginning of Christianity after his execution. That's the difference.
http://historical-jesus.sosblogs.com/Hi ... b1-p50.htm
Cordially, Bernard
