How was born the belief in the resurrection “in the flesh”

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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How was born the belief in the resurrection “in the flesh”

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:15 am

According to Couchoud, the belief in the resurrection “in the flesh”, on which Ignatius insists, became necessary as reward for the increasing persecutions of the Christians in the early II century (see Pliny).

But now that martyrs suffer in the depths of the flesh wounds and tortures, which sustain mortal combat in the flesh, it no longer seems right that their flesh be annihilated. The churches claim, against the teaching of Paul, the resurrection of the flesh.

(Le dieu Jésus, p. 179, original emphasis).

So there is a relation between the sufferings of Ignatius and his obsessive insistence in the flesh.


By this way, the persecutions helped to euhemerize Jesus.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

bbyrd009
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Re: How was born the belief in the resurrection “in the flesh”

Post by bbyrd009 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:49 am

Ya, I guess everyone wants rewards for what they are supposed to be doing anyway, huh. And no one really ever dies @ baptism either, they just let ol' Preach mumble the words while they are under water, mostly. New Life starts today regardless, I guess.

gryan
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Re: How was born the belief in the resurrection “in the flesh”

Post by gryan » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:55 am

I take the variant reading of Eph. 5:30 (preserved in the KJV) as a clue: "For we are members of his body, [of his flesh, and of his bones]." This image of the Christian as "flesh and bones" of Christ is paralleled by the image of Jesus in Luke's gospel saying, "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.”

I think the tradition of Jesus' resurrection in a body of "flesh and bones" is useful for believers who are to some extent the present "flesh and bones" of Christ. "Paul" was using this analogy to some extent when he wrote in Colossians 1:24, "...in my flesh I complete what is lacking in the affliction of Christ on behalf of his body, the Church."

Giuseppe
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Re: How was born the belief in the resurrection “in the flesh”

Post by Giuseppe » Sun Jan 06, 2019 1:10 am

The Couchoud's point is that, if the persecutions moved the Christians to desire also their resurrection ''in the flesh'' as reward, then also Jesus had to have a resurrection ''in the flesh''. From a ''Jesus risen in the flesh'' to a ''Jesus lived in the flesh'', the step is very short.


Therefore Pilate was introduced definitely in the Gospel as the more cruel persecutor found in Josephus for a precise reason: the his historical cruelty confirmed the maximum "historical" persecution of the Christ, ''in the flesh''.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Ethan
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Re: How was born the belief in the resurrection “in the flesh”

Post by Ethan » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:53 am

grape juice resurrects "in the flesh' and becomes wine

Plato Euthyd. 285d
Then Ctesippus said: I too, Socrates, am ready to offer myself to be skinned by the strangers even more, if they choose, than they are doing now, if my hide is not to end by being made into a wine-skin like that of Marsyas, but into the shape of virtue.

Herodotus 7.26
The skin of Marsyas the Silenus also hangs there the Phrygian story tells that it was flayed off him and hung up by Apollo(Pilate)

Christian history will never understand.
https://vivliothikiagiasmatos.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/joseph-yahuda-hebrew-is-greek.pdf
paypal.me/Napples

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