Celestial crucifixion in Hebrews 13:12

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Giuseppe
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Celestial crucifixion in Hebrews 13:12

Post by Giuseppe »

So Couchoud :

Why did not it [the crucifixion] take place on earth? The author of Hebrews, idealist if ever there was one, didn't arrive until this conclusion. For him, the priestly sacrifice of Jesus, however temporal it may be, is not at all an event of this world. It took place outside the world and the Christians have to leave the world if they want to meet the Crucifix: “ And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to sanctify the people. Let us, then, go to him outside the camp, bearing the disgrace he bore, for here we do not have an enduring city" (13:12).


The reason why the Christians have to leave this world (=this city) is the celestial sacrifice of Jesus happened, itself, outside this world. If they continue to remain in this world, their sacrifices are not equally valid as the celestial sacrifice is, and so they are not sanctified totally.

Only by ascending to heaven, their earthly sacrifices become the same sacrifices ''he bore'', outside the world.

The alternative is that their sacrifices remain earthly sacrifices and therefore vain.

So I wonder: could the same crucifixion of Jesus be considered earthly insofar it was vain? While, insofar it was a celestial crucifixion, it was not vain, but effective.

In other terms, the author of Hebrews believed in a celestial crucifixion, but he was aware that some Christians were introducing the idea of an earthly crucifixion. His reaction to it was: if the crucifixion is earthly, then it continues to be vain as all the earthly sacrifices.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Celestial crucifixion in Hebrews 13:12

Post by Giuseppe »

This condition (''if you want to see the Crucifix, you have to go outside this world'') is perfectly allegorized in Mark by the continued impossibility of the women to see really the Crucifix.

They saw him from a distance. They saw the his burial from a distance. And they saw an empty tomb. With the message that the Crucifix is now in ''Galilee'' (allegory of heavens). So they have to leave Jerusalem and the entire Judea (allegory of this world), to go to Heaven (="Galilee"). The implicit point is that not only the Risen, but also the Crucifix was really in ''Galilee'' (=heaven).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Celestial crucifixion in Hebrews 13:12

Post by Giuseppe »

So the women are already in Mark allegory of the ''Church''. The entire Church, if she wants to see really the Crucified Jesus, has to ascend to heaven (=''Galilee''), otherwise here in this earth she is condemned to see only an empty tomb (=this Temple destroyed) and a people crucified by the Romans.

It is curious that the Fourth Gospel makes explicit this point, by replacing the women (who are from a high distance) with a woman and a Beloved Disciple who are already strictly near the Crucified.

Therefore the point of the Fourth Gospel is that the Beloved Disciple (and with him the true ''Church'') is who has seen the celestial crucifixion directly in heaven.

Is he Paul the Apostle?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Celestial crucifixion in Hebrews 13:12

Post by Giuseppe »

Now this is interesting.

Luke confirms that Jesus was killed in Outer Space, "out of the camp" : in Outer Space, just as Hebrews 13:12 claims:

So they threw him out of the vineyard and killed him.

(Luke 20:15)

Note that Mark, at contrary, has Jesus killed inside the vineyard and only after his corpse is expelled out of vineyard:

So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard.

(Mark 11:8)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Celestial crucifixion in Hebrews 13:12

Post by Giuseppe »

If the "Vineyard" allegorizes all Israel (not only Jerusalem) then Jesus was killed out of Judea, in Galilee.

Galilee = heaven.

The Tronier's study (“Philonic Allegory in Mark” , 2007) is partially confirmed:

https://vridar.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... ryMark.pdf

If we compare this with the description of the Christ figure in Paul, we can see that the geographical location in the first part of the gospel (the periphery, Galilee) corresponds symbolically with the heavenly world in Paul. In Galilee Jesus appears as Christ with authority, power and glory, even though he is not generally recognized as such. By contrast, the geographical location of the second part of the gospel (the centre, Jerusalem) corresponds with the earthly world in Paul: the place where Christ appears as crucified and disgraced. Moreover, just as we find in the cosmic movement in Paul (from heaven to earth), so in Mark the direct, geographical movement from periphery to centre connects glory and authority with the cross. In fact, since the periphery is in Mark to be understood as the heavenly world, it makes special sense that the starting-point for the direct movement towards the cross is located at the point where the disciples are as far out in the periphery as they will get, at Caesarea Philippi.

If "Galilee" was allegory of the heaven, and Jesus was crucified in heaven for the early Christians, then it is surely more expected that Jesus was crucified in "Galilee" in the Earliest Gospel, more than in "Jerusalem" (=allegory of earth).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Celestial crucifixion in Hebrews 13:12

Post by Giuseppe »

So Rylands:

According to this Gospel [GPeter] the trial of Jesus was conducted by Herod, who is styled "Herod the King". It is assumed that the writer has made a mistake in so styling him, because the only Herod who fits the accepted chronology is Herod Antipas, tetrarch of Galilee. There are, however, three possibilities. The writer, though he mistakenly calls him King, may have known that Herod was ruler of Galilee. In that case, since Herod Hantipas had his residence at Tiberias and had no jurisdiction in Judea, the scene of the trial and crucifixion must have been laid in Galilee. There are certain facts which could be explained on this supposition.

(Beginning, p.170-171, my bold)

The fugue of disciples to Galilee can be explained as a necessary expedient to justify the fact that the first resurrection episode (hence, the first witness of the Empty Tomb) was made in Galilee (because Jesus was crucified and was risen there) and the memory of that resurrection episode in Galilee had to be justified by "Mark", someway, hence he invented an angel witness of a Resurrection in Jerusalem who advised the disciples to go "suddenly" to Galilee.


Rylands notes a curious information given in Mark that seems totally unnecessary:

In the latter Gospel [GMark] it is explained that the women had followed Jesus from Galilee. In the Gospel of Peter that explanation is not given, and the natural implication of the statement there made is that the women were habitually resident in the town near which the tomb was situated. «Mary Magdalene, a female disciple of the Lord ... took with her her female friends, and came to the sepulchre where he was laid». A little later on the women say «We will bewail him until we come to our house». Moreover there is no clear intimation of the return of the disciples from Jerusalem to Galilee. In §12 it is said that the disciples «withdrew every man to his house sorrowing». The expression is not unambiguous, but in the absence of corroborative information one would not take it to mean a journey from Jerusalem to Galilee.

(ibidem, p. 172, my bold)

It seems that, just as "Mark" takes disturb to explain, by the angel's news, the presence of the disciples in Galilee after the Resurrection, so he is going to explain, with identical difficulty, the presence of the Galilean women in Jerusalem before the crucifixion.

If the crucifixion happened in Galilee in the Earliest Gospel, then there would be no need at all for moving the women so rapidly from Galilee to Jerusalem (they were already there) and for moving the disciples so rapidly from Jerusalem to Galilee (they were already there) .
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Giuseppe
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Re: Celestial crucifixion in Hebrews 13:12

Post by Giuseppe »

Another clue suggesting the crucifixion being placed in Galilee in the Earliest Gospel:

Its name, Golgotha, more correctly, Golgoltha, comes from the same root as Gilgal

https://biblehub.com/sermons/auth/gould ... cution.htm

Now, an occurrence of "Gilgal" in the OT is found also inJoshua 12:23:

the king of Dor in Naphath-dor one;
the king of Goiim in Gilgal, one;

The Septuaginta translates "Gilgal" with "Galilee".

Hence "Mark" could have disturbed himself again and again, by adding a new name for "Golgotha":

Mark 15:22
And they bring him to the place Golgotha, which is, being interpreted, The place of a skull.

So Nanine Charbonnel:

Place of Adam's death (Adam's tomb is in the Temple, according to the Book of Jubilees 4:29; and Adam's skull also, by confusion of the words arauna and adam, [F. Manns, Jésus fils de D, p. 171].

(translated from Jésus-Christ, sublime figure de papier)

Hence, there is no connection between Golgotha and Skull apart the pious desire of "Mark" to place Jesus's crucifixion in the place where Adam was buried, i.e. in the Temple of Jerusalem. Even here, one can see the transposition from Galilee ("Golgotha") to Jerusalem ("skull").

Since there is no connection between Golgotha and skull, then Golgotha derives probably from Gilgal = Galilee (per Septuaginta).

Jesus was crucified in Galilee in the Earliest Gospel.

But Galilee is allegory of heaven.

Therefore, Jesus was crucified in heaven, i.e. in Outer Space.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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