The seven veils.

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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rakovsky
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by rakovsky » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:25 pm

I came across this today about the 4th-5th c. Vision of Theophilus, and I found the quote relevant, so I decided to share it. This is a modern summary of its contents:
The next story takes place in Qenis (pp. 24–26), where the family encounter a friend of Joseph from Judea whose possessed son is exorcised by Jesus. Though the townspeople are charitable to the family, they must flee when the nobles of the town hear that they have caused the destruction of their idols. So they come to Qusqam, the home of an idol adorned by seven veils. Sensing Jesus’ presence, the veils are torn and the idol falls to the ground. The priests chase the family away and Jesus curses the town.
https://www.nasscal.com/e-clavis-christ ... heophilus/

I still think that the Seven Veils of the Oscar Wilde story and reference fit better though.

My research on the prophecies of the Messiah's resurrection: http://rakovskii.livejournal.com

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Secret Alias
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:03 pm

Good. The entire world was waiting to see how you were going to decide.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

andrewcriddle
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by andrewcriddle » Wed Feb 27, 2019 12:03 pm

Full text at http://www.bombaxo.com/2010/12/27/the-v ... heophilus/ FWIW this narrative mentions both seven veils (of an idol) and Salome (a nursemaid)

Andrew Criddle

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Secret Alias
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Mar 05, 2019 9:53 pm

Andrew has anyone compared these 'seven circuits' with the ones described in Joshua chapter 6?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by Secret Alias » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:09 pm

αὐτίκα ὁμολογεῖ τὴν ἐπίκρυψιν ἡ περὶ τὸν νεὼν τὸν παλαιὸν τῶν ἑπτὰ περιβόλων πρός τι ἀναφορὰ παρ' Ἑβραίοις ἱστορουμένη ἥ τε κατὰ τὸν ποδήρη διασκευή, διὰ ποικίλων τῶν πρὸς τὰ φαινόμενα συμβόλων τὴν ἀπ' οὐρανοῦ μέχρι γῆς αἰνισσομένη συνθήκην.

Clement is describing the desert tabernacle. νεὼν must be a scribal error or τὸν νεὼν τὸν παλαιὸν means ancient tabernacle.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Mar 06, 2019 12:00 am

Notice

Now concealment is evinced in the reference of the seven circuits around the ancient temple, which are made mention of among the Hebrews ... and the things recorded of the sacred ark signify the properties of the world of thought, which is hidden and closed to the many.

I think he is describing the tabernacle not the temple and the seven circuits go back to Joshua 6.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:37 am

περὶ τὸν νεὼν τὸν παλαιὸν τῶν ἑπτὰ περιβόλων πρός τι ἀναφορὰ παρ' Ἑβραίοις ἱστορουμένη

related to the ancient tabernacle of the seven circuits (round Jericho) which are made mention of among the Hebrews;
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

andrewcriddle
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by andrewcriddle » Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:59 pm

I agree that τὸν νεὼν τὸν παλαιὸν literally means the ancient temple I'm afraid I don't see this as supporting a reference to Joshua chapter 6.

The use of ancient could well support a reference to the tabernacle, (which I think entirely possible) , however ναός does not seem to be normally used to refer to the tabernacle which supports the idea that Clement is referring to the temple here. IMO Clement could have referred to the Jerusalem temple as the ancient temple although I can't find good parallels.

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Secret Alias
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:01 pm

But read in context Clement is comparing Egyptian sphinxes to (presumably) the cherubim of the Israelite tabernacle. All that follows has to with the desert tabernacle.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

andrewcriddle
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Re: The seven veils.

Post by andrewcriddle » Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:45 am

Secret Alias wrote:
Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:01 pm
But read in context Clement is comparing Egyptian sphinxes to (presumably) the cherubim of the Israelite tabernacle. All that follows has to with the desert tabernacle.
There were cherubim in the first (Solomon's) temple. One possibility is that Clement means the first temple by ancient temple. What the seven encirclings or coverings would mean in this case I have no idea.

Andrew Criddle

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