In China the Government is Dictating Scripture

[Peter Kirby]

The NHL is often believed to have been deliberately laid in jars (where they were found) in the desert cave for safe keeping. Not necessarily a message in a bottle -- they may have wanted to come back for it -- but incidentally became one. This could obviously involve a situation where heretical texts at houses and places of worship or monasteries were being seized.

Before that find, we had precious little indeed from the 'Gnostics' themselves.

[Secret Alias]

And as always with these matters the difference is how you frame the question. If we take Mountainman as the one extreme of the situation (complete government involvement) and let's say Larry Hurtado as the other (no government interference) of course Hurtado is the most authoritative. His opinions come directly from the evidence. He never oversteps what the evidence says and rarely misses what the evidence doesn't say (there are only a handful of clues that there was Imperial involvement in the development of Christian orthodoxy). That's the bottom line. He wins every time.

So if we limit the discussion to what the evidence says - there is very little evidence of Imperial involvement in the development of Christianity. But then we have to ask ourselves - what evidence is there? In the second century the evidence is mostly (a) canonical material which is used to support early Christianity being a 'certain type' of religion (i.e. reflective of the orthodoxy which emerged in the late second century) (b) letters from purported 'early figures' in the Church which ultimately did not become part of the canon to other churches or individuals (c) apologetic treatises usually directed at a wide audience outside of the Church (d) heretical compendiums (i.e. lists and descriptions of groups that aren't not to be considered 'Christians' (mostly developed from certain statements in Justin Martyr which tell the Emperor at the time that all the individuals he hates or are hated generally are not actually Christians (e) books which outline orthodoxy usually as counter-arguments against well known positions of heretics (f) martyrologies.

Very little of these works can be used to actually construct anything resembling an account of the development of the Church or its relationship with the Imperial government. You can infer this, you can infer that. But there is little in the way of solid evidence for what the Church looked like or how it was interacting with the authorities. By the third century we have clear efforts of the Roman Church in particular to establish rules by which other churches are governed. They start as doctrinal questions - i.e. when is Easter to be calculated etc. And we see clear signs that these issues were resolved through threats of excommunication. No question about that. Yet there is no clear reason why a particular church would care that it was 'excommunicated' from the Roman Church or those churches who were in communion with the Roman Church? If let's say Giuseppe here at the forum threatened to stop communicating with me or reading my posts that would only matter if I wanted or needed to stay in touch with Giuseppe. True it can be argued that the Roman Church might have had symbolic value for some churches. But surely they could have gotten along just fine if the bishop of Rome 'excommunicated' them.

As such there has to be more than simply an 'unfriending' issue. Jewish and Samaritan communities weren't 'in communion' with Christian churches and they survived. While it is difficult to prove the only thing that makes sense is that somehow even as early as the third or even last decade of the second century, 'being in communion with the Roman church' had some sort of legitimacy associated with it. This is particular unusual given the manner in which Patriarchates function to this day in the Orthodox Church - i.e. that one see is of no greater worth or significance than another. Surely in antiquity the See of Antioch was equal to the See of Rome in terms of history, connection to the apostles. So it has to be something more than mere symbolic or historical value. Clearly and implicitly the Roman Church must have had contacts with the government of Rome. In the same way as Judah haNasi was understood to be 'in Rome' hanging out with the Emperor in the bathhouses and social settings of the Capitol there must have been Christians with the same access to government (cf. Irenaeus AH III) who were keeping an eye in some form on the churches beyond Rome.

I don't see how that can't have been true. The idea that Rome simply let Jews, Christians and Samaritans do whatever they wanted is absurd giving the network of spies and the general paranoia of the Imperial government in the period. We certainly hear arguments to the effect FROM THE CHURCHES OUTSIDE ROME that every tradition should be allowed to continue in the beliefs established by its forerunners. So Irenaeus argues that those churches which calculated Easter based on a lunar calendar should be allowed to continue to do so. Examples are cited from the second century of the bishop of Rome not having the authority to curb Polycarp when he visited Rome (this is usually improperly contextualized as 'agreeing to disagree' but that would ignore the actual context in which he was writing). Starting with the episcopacy of Victor, the Roman church started regulating the other churches. It might have started with small issues like the date of Easter but this is all we are allowed to see 'above the surface.' As noted the information from the second century period mostly precludes any precise historical information.

Clearly within two generations of the Crisis of the Third Century, the Roman government was using the Roman church to establish 'right belief' among the various churches outside of Rome. This was carried out through the establishment of various 'overseers' (bishops) who were likely appointed by Rome (although the evidence for this is not convincing yet). But the overarching problem which is never explained by those who advocate a laissez faire attitude for the Imperial government is why the rest of the churches complied with the rather arbitrary decisions coming from the Roman episcopate.

[Secret Alias]

Or here's another question - is it EVEN POSSIBLE that a religious movement presumably based out of the seditious province of Judea could have developed over the course of 300 plus years WITHOUT government oversight and involvement? I'd put the odds at about 0% for that possibility. Judaism was certainly 'reformed' through Imperial help. Attempts (holocausts) were directed against Samaritanism in the period. How could a movement that was nothing but a proselytizing religion have escaped? And why was it that Jews and Samaritans were forbidden BY IMPERIAL DECREE to make converts but Christianity was tolerated? Clearly they had ways of controlling or at least influencing the message that was being preached.

[Secret Alias]

And counter argument to the understanding that the Imperial government allowed certain sects to flourish while others were punished is a variation on https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/30/politics ... index.html

[Secret Alias]

Here is the dialogue that scholars would have us believe about the emergence of early Christianity in Imperial circles:

"What's this I hear about a Jewish superstition that is popular among the lower classes?"
"It's called Christianity."
"Christianity? What's that?"
"They are like Jewish with a different set of scriptures."
"A different set of scriptures? What do they say?"
"They tell the story about a man who was crucified and rose from the dead. They might contain some subtle references to this man being the real king of the world - even a god - rather than you."
"Oh really. Can't we do something about that? I mean that doesn't sound very good given that I am supposed to be ruler of the world and god."
"No. We can't touch their writings. They're the holy word of God."
"Oh yes. I see. You're right. We can't go around changing people's religions now can we? Oh well. We can kill these people right."
"Certainly."
"Okay. Let's start doing that then."

[Secret Alias]

Forgery in ancient Buddhism:

The c. 905 Daojiao lingyan ji (道教靈驗記, Record of Daoist Miracles, written by the Daoist priest, author, and court official Du Guangting, says a Buddhist monk fraudulently transformed the Wuchu jing Scripture of the Five Kitchens into the Sanchu jing (三廚經, Sutra of the Three Kitchens). Du records that the Chinese Buddhist canon of the Tang period contained a text titled Fo shuo san tingchu jing (佛說三停廚經, Sutra of the Three Interrupted Kitchens, Preached by the Buddha) (Verellen I992: 248-249). According to Du Guangting, the monk Xingduan (行端), who had "a presumptuous and fraudulent disposition", saw that the widely-circulated Daoist Wuchu jing consisted of five stanzas (jì 偈, "gatha; poetic verse; versified utterance") of incantations (zhòu 咒, "mantra; religious incantation; mystical invocation"), rearranged them, and expanded the title into Fo shuo san tingchu jing (佛說三停廚經). "The five incantations he turned into 'five sutras spoken by Tathagata,' and at the end he added a hymn. The additional phrases amounted to no less than a page." Verellen suggests that the scripture, with its "Buddho-Daoist content and quasi-magical use", originated as a late Six Dynasties (220-589) Tantric zhoujing (咒經, "incantations scripture", cf. the Divine Incantations Scripture). (1992: 250-51).

Du Guangting gives a lengthy narrative about the Daoist miracle involving supernatural retribution for Xingduan's forgery. One day after the monk had already given several copies of the altered scripture to others, a "divine being eight or nine feet tall" and holding a sword reprimands him for the counterfeiting and brandishes his sword to strike the monk. As Xingduan "wards off the blow with his hand, several fingers are lopped off", he begs for mercy, and the Daoist deity agrees to spare his life if he retrieves and destroys all the fakes. Xingduan and his companions search everywhere for the texts, but can only find half of them, the remainder having already been carried abroad by Buddhist monks. Xingduan prepares ten fresh copies of the original scripture, offers incense, repents, and burns the altered copies. Then the divine being reappears and announces: "Having vilified the sage's text, restitution won't save you—you do not deserve to escape death", the monk falls prostrate and dies on the spot (Verellen 1992: 251).

In the present day, early copies of this apocryphal Buddhist sutra have been preserved. Four textual versions were discovered in the Chinese Dunhuang manuscripts, two versions, dated 1099 and 1270, are kept in the Japanese Mount Kōya manuscripts. In addition, the modern Japanese Taishō Tripiṭaka canon includes the text (Mollier 2009: 26-28).

The highly abstract Wuchu jing mystical poem comprises five stanzas consisting of four five-character lines each. The Yunqi qiqian edition shows that the five stanzas were associated with the Five Directions of space: east (lines 1-4), south (lines 5-8), north (lines 9-12), west (lines 13-16), and center (lines 17-20) (Verellen 2004: 351). For example, the first four lines (tr. Kohn 2010: 200-201):

一氣和泰和
得一道皆泰
和乃無一和
玄理同玄際

The qi of universal oneness merges with the harmony of cosmic peace.
Attaining universal oneness, Dao rests in cosmic peace.
Cosmic harmony really is neither universal oneness nor harmony.
Mysterious cosmic order joins the mysterious moment of eternity.

The content of the Wuchu jing guides adepts toward a detached mental state of non-thinking and equanimity. The Five Kitchens refer to neidan Internal Alchemy "qi-processing on a subtle-body level", and signify the energetic, transformative power of the Five Viscera (Kohn 2010: 71). Yin Yin's introduction says,

As long as you dwell in the qi of universal oneness [一氣] and in the harmony of cosmic peace [泰和], the five organs [五臟] are abundant and full and the five spirits [五神] are still and upright. "When the five organs are abundant, all sensory experiences are satisfied; when the five spirits are still, all cravings and desires are eliminated. This scripture expounds on how the five organs taking in qi is like someone looking for food in a kitchen. Thus, its title: "Scripture of the Five Kitchens." (tr. Kohn 2010: 200)

Commenting on Yin's interpretation, Du Guangting claims more explicitly that practicing this scripture will enable an adept to stop eating. (Verellen 2004: 352)

Techniques in the Wuchu jing (五廚經, Scripture of the Five Kitchens) mainly involve visualizing the Five Viscera of the body and chanting incantations. These methods supposedly allow the adept to obtain satisfaction and harmony, and, after some years of training, even transcendence (Mollier 2008a: 279-280). Despite this concern with the human body, the text strongly emphasizes mental restructuring over physical practices, saying that "accumulating cultivation will not get you to detachment" and that methods of ingestion are ultimately useless. However, reciting the scripture is beneficial, especially if combined with mental and ethical practices, so that "you will easily get the true essentials of cultivating the body-self and protecting life." More specifically, chanting the text one hundred times and practicing the harmonization of the five qi allows adepts to abstain from grain and eliminate hunger (Mollier 1999: 62-63). Many present-day Daoists consider the Wuchu jing as a talismanic text to be chanted for protection (Kohn 2010: 71).