What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

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Secret Alias
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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:24 pm

Yup. And it's even stronger in the Diatessaron:
And after six days Jesus took Simon Cephas, and James, and John his brother, 3 and brought them up into a high mountain, the three of them only. And while they 4 were praying, Jesus changed, and became after the fashion of another person; and his face shone like the sun, and his raiment was very white like the snow, and as 5 the light of lightning, so that nothing on earth can whiten like it. And there appeared unto him Moses and Elijah talking to Jesus. And they thought that the time 7 of his decease which was to be accomplished at Jerusalem was come. And Simon and those that were with him were heavy in the drowsiness of steep; and with effort they roused themselves, and saw his glory, and those two men that were standing with him.
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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by GakuseiDon » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:29 pm

Secret Alias wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:54 am
So far I have

1. passing through crowds, flying (Luke chapter 4/Diatessaron/Marcionite interpretion)
2. Acts of John mention of John seeing Jesus change his shape
3. Judas kissing Jesus to identify him (interpretation of Gospel of Barnabas but must be older)
4. Simon Cyrene/Judas substitution tradition
5. Faustus 'taking on' the face of Simon Magus in Clementine tradition
6. the Marcionite epithet 'the Stranger' and 'strangeness'
7. Polycarp's identification viz. the Peregrinus tradition = Proteus

Any others come to mind?
The "old man" who convinced Justin Martyr to become a Christian in his "Dialogue with Trypho" was thought by some to be Jesus himself, if I remember correctly.
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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Peter Kirby » Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:55 pm

GakuseiDon wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 2:29 pm
The "old man" who convinced Justin Martyr to become a Christian in his "Dialogue with Trypho" was thought by some to be Jesus himself, if I remember correctly.
article: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1584771?se ... b_contents

"And while I was thus disposed, when I wished at one period to be filled with great quietness, and to shun the path of men, I used to go into a certain field not far from the sea. And when I was near that spot one day, which having reached I purposed to be by myself, a certain old man, by no means contemptible in appearance, exhibiting meek and venerable manners, followed me at a little distance. And when I turned round to him, having halted, I fixed my eyes rather keenly on him.

"And he said, 'Do you know me?'

I replied in the negative.

"'Why, then,' said he to me, 'do you so look at me?

"'I am astonished,' I said, 'because you have chanced to be in my company in the same place; for I had not expected to see any man here.'

"And he says to me, 'I am concerned about some of my household. These are gone away from me; and therefore have I come to make personal search for them, if, perhaps, they shall make their appearance somewhere. But why are you here?' said he to me.

"'I delight,' said I, 'in such walks, where my attention is not distracted, for converse with myself is uninterrupted; and such places are most fit for philology.'

"'Are you, then, a philologian,' said he, but no lover of deeds or of truth? and do you not aim at being a practical man so much as being a sophist?'

"'What greater work,' said I, 'could one accomplish than this, to show the reason which governs all, and having laid hold of it, and being mounted upon it, to look down on the errors of others, and their pursuits? But without philosophy and right reason, prudence would not be present to any man. Wherefore it is necessary for every man to philosophize, and to esteem this the greatest and most honourable work; but other things only of second-rate or third-rate importance, though, indeed, if they be made to depend on philosophy, they are of moderate value, and worthy of acceptance; but deprived of it, and not accompanying it, they are vulgar and coarse to those who pursue them.'

"'Does philosophy, then, make happiness?' said he, interrupting.

"'Assuredly,' I said, 'and it alone.'

"'What, then, is philosophy?' he says; 'and what is happiness? Pray tell me, unless something hinders you from saying.'

"'Philosophy, then,' said I, 'is the knowledge of that which really exists, and a clear perception of the truth; and happiness is the reward of such knowledge and wisdom.'

"'But what do you call God?' said he.

"'That which always maintains the same nature, and in the same manner, and is the cause of all other things--that, indeed, is God.' So I answered him; and he listened to me with pleasure, and thus again interrogated me:--

"'Is not knowledge a term common to different matters? For in arts of all kinds, he who knows any one of them is called a skilful man in the art of generalship, or of ruling, or of healing equally. But in divine and human affairs it is not so. Is there a knowledge which affords understanding of human and divine things, and then a thorough acquaintance with the divinity and the righteousness of them?'

"'Assuredly,' I replied.

"'What, then? Is it in the same way we know man and' God, as we know music, and arithmetic, and astronomy, or any other similar branch?'

"'By no means,' I replied.

"'You have not answered me correctly, then,' he said; 'for some [branches of knowledge] come to us by learning, or by some employment, while of others we have knowledge by sight. Now, if one were to tell you that there exists in India an animal with a nature unlike all others, but of such and such a kind, multiform and various, you would not know it before you saw it; but neither would you be competent to give any account of it, unless you should hear from one who had seen it.'

"'Certainly not,' I said.

"'How then,' he said, 'should the philosophers judge correctly about God, or speak any truth, when they have no knowledge of Him, having neither seen Him at any time, nor heard Him?'

"'But, father,' said I, 'the Deity cannot be seen merely by the eyes, as other living beings can, but is discernible to the mind alone, as Plato says; and I believe him.'

"'Is there then,' says he, 'such and so great power in our mind? Or can a man not perceive by sense sooner? Will the mind of man see God at any time, if it is uninstructed by the Holy Spirit?'

"'Plato indeed says,' replied I, 'that the mind's eye is of such a nature, and has been given for this end, that we may see that very Being when the mind is pure itself, who is the cause of all discerned by the mind, having no colour, no form, no greatness--nothing, indeed, which the bodily eye looks upon; but It is something of this sort, he goes on to say, that is beyond all essence, unutterable and inexplicable, but alone honourable and good, coming suddenly into souls well-dispositioned, on account of their affinity to and desire of seeing Him.'

"'What affinity, then,' replied he, 'is there between us and God? Is the soul also divine and immortal, and a part of that very regal mind? And even as that sees God, so also is it attainable by us to conceive of the Deity in our mind, and thence to become happy?'

"'Assuredly,' I said.

"'And do all the souls of all living beings comprehend Him?' he asked; 'or are the souls of men of one kind and the souls of horses and of asses of another kind?'

"'No; but the souls which are in all are similar,' I answered.

"'Then,' says he, 'shall both horses and asses see, or have they seen at some time or other, God?'

"'No,' I said; 'for the majority of men will not, saving such as shall live justly, purified by righteousness, and by every other virtue.'

"'It is not, therefore,' said he, 'on account of his affinity, that a man sees God, nor because he has a mind, but because he is temperate and righteous?'

"'Yes,' said I; 'and because he has that whereby he perceives God.'

"'What then? Do goats or sheep injure anyone?'

"'No one in any respect,' I said.

"'Therefore these animals will see [God] according to your account,' says he.

"'No; for their body being of such a nature, is an obstacle to them.'

"He rejoined,' If these animals could assume speech, be well assured that they would with greater reason ridicule our body; but let us now dismiss this subject, and let it be conceded to you as you say. Tell me, however, this: Does the soul see [God] so long as it is in the body, or after it has been removed from it?'

"'So long as it is in the form of a man, it is possible for it,' I continue, 'to attain to this by means of the mind; but especially when it has been set free from the body, and being apart by itself, it gets possession of that which it was wont continually and wholly to love.'

"'Does it remember this, then [the sight of God], when it is again in the man?'

"'It does not appear to me so,' I said.

"'What, then, is the advantage to those who have seen [God]? or what has he who has seen more than he who has not seen, unless he remember this fact, that he has seen?'

"'I cannot tell,' I answered.

"'And what do those suffer who are judged to be unworthy of this spectacle?' said he.

"'They are imprisoned in the bodies of certain wild beasts, and this is their punishment.'

"'Do they know, then, that it is for this reason they are in such forms, and that they have committed some sin?'

"'I do not think so.'

"'Then these reap no advantage from their punishment, as it seems: moreover, I would say that they are not punished unless they are conscious of the punishment.'

"'No indeed.'

"'Therefore souls neither see God nor trans-migrate into other bodies; for they would know that so they are punished, and they would be afraid to commit even the most trivial sin afterwards. But that they can perceive that God exists, and that righteousness and piety are honourable, I also quite agree with you,' said he.

"'You are right,' I replied.

"'These philosophers know nothing, then, about these things; for they cannot tell what a soul is.'

"'It does not appear so.'

"'Nor ought it to be called immortal; for if it is immortal, it is plainly unbegotten.'

"'It is both unbegotten and immortal, according to some who are styled Platonists.'

"'Do you say that the world is also unbegotten?'

"'Some say so. I do not, however, agree with them.'

"'You are right; for what reason has one for supposing that a body so solid, possessing resistance, composite, changeable, decaying, and renewed every day, has not arisen from some cause? But if the world is begotten, souls also are necessarily begotten; and perhaps at one time they were not in existence, for they were made on account of men and other living creatures, if you will say that they have been begotten wholly apart, and not along with their respective bodies.' "'This seems to be correct.'

"'They are not, then, immortal?'

"'No; since the world has appeared to us to be begotten.'

"'But I do not say, indeed, that all souls die; for that were truly a piece of good fortune to the evil. What then? The souls of the pious remain in a better place, while those of the unjust and wicked are in a worse, waiting for the time of judgment. Thus some which have appeared worthy of God never die; but others are punished so long as God wills them to exist and to be punished.'

"'Is what you say, then, of a like nature with that which Plato in Timoeus hints about the world, when he says that it is indeed subject to decay, inasmuch as it has been created, but that it will neither be dissolved nor meet with the fate of death on account of the will of God? Does it seem to you the very same can be said of the soul, and generally of all things? For those things which exist after God, or shall at any time exist, these have the nature of decay, and are such as may be blotted out and cease to exist; for God alone is unbegotten and incorruptible, and therefore He is God, but all other things after Him are created and corruptible. For this reason souls both die and are punished: since, if they were unbegotten, they would neither sin, nor be filled with folly, nor be cowardly, and again ferocious; nor would they willingly transform into swine, and serpents, and dogs and it would not indeed be just to compel them, if they be unbegotten. For that which is unbegotten is similar to, equal to, and the same with that which is unbegotten; and neither in power nor in honour should the one be preferred to the other, and hence there are not many things which are unbegotten: for if there were some difference between them, you would not discover the cause of the difference, though you searched for it; but after letting the mind ever wander to infinity, you would at length, wearied out, take your stand on one Unbegotten, and say that this is the Cause of all. Did such escape the observation of Plato and Pythagoras, those wise men,' I said, 'who have been as a wall and fortress of philosophy to us?'

"'It makes no matter to me,' said he, 'whether Plato or Pythagoras, or, in short, any other man held such opinions. For the truth is so; and you would perceive it from this. The soul assuredly is or has life. If, then, it is life, it would cause something else, and not itself, to live, even as motion would move something else than itself. Now, that the soul lives, no one would deny. But if it lives, it lives not as being life, but as the partaker of life; but that which partakes of anything, is different from that of which it does partake. Now the soul partakes of life, since God wills it to live. Thus, then, it will not even partake [of life] when God does not will it to live. For to live is not its attribute, as it is God's; but as a man does not live always, and the soul is not for ever conjoined with the body, since, whenever this harmony must be broken up, the soul leaves the body, and the man exists no longer; even so, whenever the soul must cease to exist, the spirit of life is removed from it, and there is no more soul, but it goes back to the place from whence it was taken.'

"'Should any one, then, employ a teacher?' I say, 'or whence may any one be helped, if not even in them there is truth?'

"'There existed, long before this time, certain men more ancient than all those who are esteemed philosophers, both righteous and beloved by God, who spoke by the Divine Spirit, and foretold events which would take place, and which are now taking place. They are called prophets. These alone both saw and announced the truth to men, neither reverencing nor fearing any man, not influenced by a desire for glory, but speaking those things alone which they saw and which they heard, being filled with the Holy Spirit. Their writings are still extant, and he who has read them is very much helped in his knowledge of the beginning and end of things, and of those matters which the philosopher ought to know, provided he has believed them. For they did not use demonstration in their treatises, seeing that they were witnesses to the truth above all demonstration, and worthy of belief; and those events which have happened, and those which are happening, compel you to assent to the utterances made by them, although, indeed, they were entitled to credit on account of the miracles which they performed, since they both glorified the Creator, the God and Father of all things, and proclaimed His Son, the Christ [sent] by Him: which, indeed, the false prophets, who are filled with the lying unclean spirit, neither have done nor do, but venture to work certain wonderful deeds for the purpose of astonishing men, and glorify the spirits and demons of error. But pray that, above all things, the gates of light may be opened to you; for these things cannot be perceived or understood by all, but only by the man to whom God and His Christ have imparted wisdom.'

"When he had spoken these and many other things, which there is no time for mentioning at present, he went away, bidding me attend to them; and I have not seen him since. But straightway a flame was kindled in my soul; and a love of the prophets, and of those men who are friends of Christ, possessed me; and whilst revolving his words in my mind, I found this philosophy alone to be safe and profitable. Thus, and for this reason, I am a philosopher. Moreover, I would wish that all, making a resolution similar to my own, do not keep themselves away from the words of the Saviour. For they possess a terrible power in themselves, and are sufficient to inspire those who turn aside from the path of rectitude with awe; while the sweetest rest is afforded those who make a diligent practice of them. If, then, you have any concern for yourself, and if you are eagerly looking for salvation, and if you believe in God, you may--since you are not indifferent to the matter -- become acquainted with the Christ of God, and, after being initiated, live a happy life."
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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Peter Kirby » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:04 pm

1. passing through crowds, flying (Luke chapter 4/Diatessaron/Marcionite interpretion)
2. Acts of John mention of John seeing Jesus change his shape
3. Judas kissing Jesus to identify him (interpretation of Gospel of Barnabas but must be older)
4. Simon Cyrene/Judas substitution tradition
5. Faustus 'taking on' the face of Simon Magus in Clementine tradition
6. the Marcionite epithet 'the Stranger' and 'strangeness'
7. Polycarp's identification viz. the Peregrinus tradition = Proteus
8. Irenaeus thinking that Jesus was 49 not in his 30s when crucified?
9. the people at the end of Luke who didn't recognize Jesus after the resurrection
10. the Legion narrative (because it suggests that Jesus had another form)
11. the I AM narrative where Jesus says he was before Abraham in John
12. 'a youth... an old man... a servant.... a likeness with multiple forms in the light' - Apoc John
13. 'Jesus changed, and became after the fashion of another person' - transfiguration in Diatessaron
14. Possibly, the 'old man' in the Dialogue with Trypho
15. Jesus as the gardener in John 20


John 20 - Jesus Appears to Mary Magdalene

11 But Mary stood weeping outside the tomb, and as she wept she stooped to look into the tomb. 12 And she saw two angels in white, sitting where the body of Jesus had lain, one at the head and one at the feet. 13 They said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping?” She said to them, “They have taken away my Lord, and I do not know where they have laid him.” 14 Having said this, she turned around and saw Jesus standing, but she did not know that it was Jesus. 15 Jesus said to her, “Woman, why are you weeping? Whom are you seeking?” Supposing him to be the gardener, she said to him, “Sir, if you have carried him away, tell me where you have laid him, and I will take him away.” 16 Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Aramaic, “Rabboni!” (which means Teacher). 17 Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” 18 Mary Magdalene went and announced to the disciples, “I have seen the Lord”—and that he had said these things to her.
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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:08 pm

1. passing through crowds, flying (Luke chapter 4/Diatessaron/Marcionite interpretion)
2. Acts of John mention of John seeing Jesus change his shape
3. Judas kissing Jesus to identify him (interpretation of Gospel of Barnabas but must be older)
4. Simon Cyrene/Judas substitution tradition
5. Faustus 'taking on' the face of Simon Magus in Clementine tradition
6. the Marcionite epithet 'the Stranger' and 'strangeness'
7. Polycarp's identification viz. the Peregrinus tradition = Proteus
8. Irenaeus thinking that Jesus was 49 not in his 30s when crucified?
9. the people at the end of Luke who didn't recognize Jesus after the resurrection
10. the Legion narrative (because it suggests that Jesus had another form)
11. the I AM narrative where Jesus says he was before Abraham in John
12. 'a youth... an old man... a servant.... a likeness with multiple forms in the light' - Apoc John
13. 'Jesus changed, and became after the fashion of another person' - transfiguration in Diatessaron
14. Possibly, the 'old man' in the Dialogue with Trypho
15. Jesus as the gardener in John 20
16. various passages where Paul says that Christ or Jesus is 'in him' or 'speaking in him'

seeing that ye seek a proof of Christ that speaketh in me (2 Corinthians 13:3)

Acts of Archelaus on this position (also referenced in Origen Homilies on Luke that Marcionites and certain heretics saw Paul as the Paraclete of Jesus:

For he has given out that he is that Paraclete whom Jesus on His departure promised to send to the race of man for the salvation of the souls of the faithful; and this profession he makes as if he were somewhat superior even to Paul, who was an elect vessel and a called apostle, and who on that ground, while preaching the true doctrine, said: Or seek yea proof of that Christ who speaks in me? [27]

Again, that it was the Paraclete Himself who was in Paul, is indicated by our Lord Jesus Christ in the Gospel, when He says: If you love me, keep my commandments. And I will pray my Father, and He shall give you another Comforter. In these words He points to the Paraclete Himself, for He speaks of another Comforter. And hence we have given credit to Paul, and have hearkened to him when he says, Or do you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me? and when he expresses himself in similar terms, of which we have already spoken above. [34]

And again: As you have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him; rooted and built up in Him, and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. Beware lest any one spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead. [35]

Moreover Paul, the chief of the apostles, after all these sayings, gives us yet clearer instruction on the subject, when be says, Or seek yea proof of that Christ who speaks in me? [42]
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:13 pm

1. passing through crowds, flying (Luke chapter 4/Diatessaron/Marcionite interpretion)
2. Acts of John mention of John seeing Jesus change his shape
3. Judas kissing Jesus to identify him (interpretation of Gospel of Barnabas but must be older)
3a. Jesus in the Gospel of Judas
4. Simon Cyrene/Judas substitution tradition
5. Faustus 'taking on' the face of Simon Magus in Clementine tradition
6. the Marcionite epithet 'the Stranger' and 'strangeness'
7. Polycarp's identification viz. the Peregrinus tradition = Proteus
8. Irenaeus thinking that Jesus was 49 not in his 30s when crucified?
9. the people at the end of Luke who didn't recognize Jesus after the resurrection
10. the Legion narrative (because it suggests that Jesus had another form)
11. the I AM narrative where Jesus says he was before Abraham in John
12. 'a youth... an old man... a servant.... a likeness with multiple forms in the light' - Apoc John
13. 'Jesus changed, and became after the fashion of another person' - transfiguration in Diatessaron
14. Possibly, the 'old man' in the Dialogue with Trypho
15. Jesus as the gardener in John 20
16. various passages where Paul says that Christ or Jesus is 'in him' or 'speaking in him'

Pseudo-Cyril

“How shall we arrest him, for he does not have a single shape but his appearance changes? Sometimes he is ruddy, sometimes he is white, sometimes he is red, sometimes he is wheat-coloured, sometimes he is pallid like ascetics, sometimes he is a youth, sometimes an old man, sometimes his hair is straight and black, sometimes it is curled, sometimes he is tall, sometimes he is short. In one word, we have never seen him in one and the same appearance.”

Judas answered and said to the chief priests: “Come, pay me the rest of the money and I shall tell you everything. For you know that except for this man’s friend nobody is able to deliver him up to affliction, because no stranger knows his manner of life.” Then the Jews paid him the rest of the money and he told them the way he would deliver him to them, and he said: “Jesus will make preparations to eat the unleavened bread, too, like all of the people, and it is for this reason that he has come to the city. Therefore, prepare good weapons, for there are some among his disciples who are outstanding warriors, and prepare good torches. Since you said to me: ‘We have never seen him in a single shape,’ this is the sign which I shall give to those who will follow me: He whom I shall kiss on his mouth and embrace and to whom I shall say: ‘Hail rabbi!’ he is your man. Arrest him!” As he, then, had said this to the Jews, he took the rest of the money, went to his home and gave it to his wicked wife. He said to her: “Behold, the total of the price of my master!” Then she was very pleased and said to him: “Excellent that you came home today with a better result than on all (other) days. In truth, when you listen to me, I shall make you deliver Mary too, and Peter and John, and then all the apostles.”
Last edited by Secret Alias on Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:17 pm

Origen Against Celsus:

Although Jesus was only a single individual, He was nevertheless more things than one, according to the different standpoint from which He might be regarded; nor was He seen in the same way by all who beheld Him. Now, that He was more things than one, according to the varying point of view, is clear from this statement, I* am the way, and the truth, and the life*; and from this, I am the bread; and this, I am the door, and innumerable others. And that when seen He did not appear in like fashion to all those who saw Him, but according to their several ability to receive Him, will be clear to those who notice why, at the time when He was about to be transfigured on the high mountain, He did not admit all His apostles (to this sight), but only Peter, and James, and John, because they alone were capable of beholding His glory on that occasion, and of observing the glorified appearance of Moses and Elijah, and of listening to their conversation, and to the voice from the heavenly cloud. I am of opinion, too, that before He ascended the mountain where His disciples came to Him alone, and where He taught them the beatitudes, when He was somewhere in the lower part of the mountain, and when, as it became late, He healed those who were brought to Him, freeing them from all sickness and disease, He did not appear the same person to the sick, and to those who needed His healing aid, as to those who were able by reason of their strength to go up the mountain along with Him. Nay, even when He interpreted privately to His own disciples the parables which were delivered to the multitudes without, from whom the explanation was withheld, as they who heard them explained were endowed with higher organs of hearing than they who heard them without explanation, so was it altogether the same with the eyes of their soul, and, I think, also with those of their body. And the following statement shows that He had not always the same appearance, viz., that Judas, when about to betray Him, said to the multitudes who were setting out with him, as not being acquainted with Him, Whomsoever I shall kiss, the same is He. And I think that the Saviour Himself indicates the same thing by the words: I was daily with you, teaching in the temple, and you laid no hold on Me. Entertaining, then, such exalted views regarding Jesus, not only with respect to the Deity within, and which was hidden from the view of the multitude, but with respect to the transfiguration of His body, which took place when and to whom He would, we say, that before Jesus had put off the governments and powers, and while as yet He was not dead unto sin, all men were capable of seeing Him; but that, when He had put off the governments and powers, and had no longer anything which was capable of being seen by the multitude, all who had formerly seen Him were not now able to behold Him. And therefore, sparing them, He did not show Himself to all after His resurrection from the dead.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:18 pm

Origen Commentary on Matthew 12 (commenting on the Transfiguration):

for the Word has different forms, as He appears to each as is expedient for the beholder, and is manifested to no one beyond the capacity of the beholder.

But you will ask if, when He was transfigured before those who were led up by Him into the lofty mountain, He appeared to them in the form of God, in which He formerly was, so that He had to those below the form of a servant, but to those who had followed Him after the six days to the lofty mountain, He had not that form, but the form of God. But hear these things, if you can, at the same time giving heed spiritually, that it is not said simply, He was transfigured, but with a certain necessary addition, which Matthew and Mark have recorded; for, according to both, He was transfigured before them. And according to this, indeed, you will say that it is possible for Jesus to be transfigured before some with this transfiguration, but before others at the same time not to be transfigured. But if you wish to see the transfiguration of Jesus before those who went up into the lofty mountain apart long with Him, behold with me the Jesus in the Gospels, as more simply apprehended, and as one might say, known according to the flesh, by those who do not go up, through works and words which are uplifting, to the lofty mountain of wisdom, but known no longer after the flesh, but known in His divinity by means of all the Gospels, and beholden in the form of God according to their knowledge; for before them is Jesus transfigured, and not to any one of those below. But when He is transfigured, His face also shines as the sun, that He may be manifested to the children of light, who have put off the works of darkness, and put on the armour of light, (Romans 13:12) and are no longer the children of darkness or night, but have become the sons of day, and walk honestly as in the day; and being manifested, He will shine unto them not simply as the sun, but as demonstrated to be the sun of righteousness.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:19 pm

Origen understands John the Baptist’s statement that he is not worthy to untie Jesus’ sandal strap (John 1:27) allegorically as meaning that the Logos, by becoming flesh, went into hiding, as it were, and “strapped” down. The task, therefore, is to loosen the thong in order to see the Word as He truly is (Commentary on John 6.19):

We must not, however, omit to ask how it comes that Luke and John give the speech without the phrase to stoop down. He, perhaps, who stoops down may be held to unloose in the sense which we have stated. On the other hand, it may be that one who fixes his eyes on the height of the exaltation of the Logos, may find the loosing of those shoes which when one is seeking them seem to be bound, so that He also looses those shoes which are separable from the Logos, and beholds the Logos divested of inferior things, as He is, the Son of God.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: What Evidence or What Suggestions Are There that Jesus Was a Shapeshifter?

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:20 pm

The Gospel of Judas says that when he said in the gospels that he could be found in a child he literally meant that:

When Jesus appeared on earth, he performed signs and great wonders for the salvation of humanity. And since some walked in the path of righteousness while others walked in their transgressions, the twelve disciples were called. He began to speak with them about the otherworldly mysteries beyond the cosmos and what would take place hereafter. Now often he would not reveal himself to his disciples, but among them you would find him as a child.*

and again:

One day he came in Judea to his disciples, and found them seated, gathered together, practicing godliness. When he [saw] his disciples gathered together, seated, giving thanks over the bread, [he] laughed. But the disciples said to him, “Teacher, why are you laughing at [our] thanksgiving? What have we done? It is what’s right.” He responded to them saying, “I’m not laughing at you. Nor are you doing this by your will; but rather it is by this that your god [will be] praised.”
They said, “Teacher, you …] are the son of our god.” Jesus said to them, “How do [you] know me? Indeed I say to you, no race of people among you will know me.”
When the disciples heard this, [they] began to get contentious and angry, and were blaspheming against him in their hearts. But when Jesus saw their foolishness, [he said] to them, “Why has confusion brought forth anger? Your god who is within you and [his stars] have become contentious with your souls. Let the [stable] one among you people bring forth the perfect human and stand before my face.”
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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