Islam is a branch of Syriac Christianity

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ghost
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Islam is a branch of Syriac Christianity

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This is a short summary of Inarah's views:

http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusiv ... s-of-islam
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spin
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Re: Islam is a branch of Syriac Christianity

Post by spin »

We don't like people coming along simply posting links to hobby horses topics they believe. If the link were part of an ongoing discussion and it somehow informed that discussion and people were prepared to argue the topic, it might be different, but you are not prepared to argue the point of view, hence you try again to post this stuff without any reason why you think it is worthwhile discussing. Please, either make a reasoned presentation of the central claim, saying in a relatively clear and logical manner why you think it has substance or give up touting the stuff. The onus is on you. We can't grill the people who wrote the material and the status quo has shown no interest in it. If you can't say in a substantive manner why this is significant then it will not get anywhere here.
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes
ghost
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Re: Islam is a branch of Syriac Christianity

Post by ghost »

spin wrote:substance
OK. Here's one of the strongest pieces of evidence. Maavia followed a Syrian militant monk called Barsauma as an example. And it turns out that Barsauma lived in Petra, which according to the Search for Mecca website is the proto-Mecca.

http://2013.inarah.de/index.php?id=127
Wenn die Islamwissenschaft die frühislamische Geschichte nicht vom späteren Traditionellen Bericht her deuten würde, hätte ihr der eigenartige Name Maavia, der „Heuler“ („Weiner“ o.ä., ein lautmalerischer Name) auffallen müssen. Wieso bezeichnet sich ein Herrscher auf diese, nicht gerade imperiale Weise? Sicherlich weil er, wie nicht zu Unrecht vermutet wurde, die in der Antike hochgeschätzte „Gabe der Tränen“, z.B. bei der Betrachtung der Passion Jesu, besaß. Es scheint aber noch einen konkreteren Hinweis zu geben: Jean Maurice Fiey berichtet in seinem Buch „Saints Syriaques“[27] von einem aus der Theologiegeschichte bekannten (der alexandrinischen Theologie bzw. dem Monophysitismus zuneigenden) Mönch namens Barsauma aus der Gegend von Samosata (gest. 458), der „chef des pleureurs“, Anführer der Heuler, der Maavias, war. Diese nun waren nicht nur fromme Mönche und friedliche Klosterinsassen, sondern militante Gesellen, die unter seiner Führung 438 die in Jerusalem wieder ansässigen Juden vertrieben, während des Konzils von Ephesus im Jahr 449 (Leo I.: „Räubersynode“) nicht vor Handgreiflichkeiten gegen die Konzilsteilnehmer zurückschreckten und zum Konzil von Chalkedon 451 mit einer Horde von angeblich 1.000 Mönchen anrückten, die aber verjagt wurden.[28]
http://2013.inarah.de/index.php?id=127#_ftn27
[27] Jean Maurice Fiey, Saints Syriaques (Studies in Late Antiquity and Early Islam, Bd. 6, hg. von Lawrence I. Conrad), Princeton, New Jersey 2004.

[28] J.M. Fiey, ebd. 49.50.
http://www.calvin.edu/petra/about/nabataeans.php
When the city was struck by a major earthquake in AD 363 a new chapter in the city's history began.

THE BYZANTINE ERA

That chapter brought Christianity to Petra. And although Christianity came slowly to Petra legend has it that the conversion process was completed by a Syrian monk named Barsauma in AD 423. A hermit, Barsauma was said to always wear an iron tunic — for maximum discomfort — and his life consisted of roaming the countryside destroying pagan temples and converting the pagans to Christianity.
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spin
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Re: Islam is a branch of Syriac Christianity

Post by spin »

ghost wrote:
spin wrote:substance
OK. Here's one of the strongest pieces of evidence.
What follows is not substance. It seems to be simply an assertion. Substance involves the primary sources for the information you claim to be facts. I could see no primary sources in your cited web page.
ghost wrote:Maavia followed a Syrian militant monk called Barsauma as an example. And it turns out that Barsauma lived in Petra, which according to the Search for Mecca website is the proto-Mecca.
You must have some other 5th century Barsauma in mind, because the famous one lived in Nisibis, close to the Tigris. And I see your source disagrees with you: he was from "der Gegend von Samosata", the vicinity of Samosata.

Substance, ie evidence which is supported by easily discernable facts. Logical connections. Argument that leads one to understand what the fuck you are pushing this stuff for. Not gaping holes that require a few dozen posts to drag some sense out of it.

If, as you have got yourself to believe, islam is a branch of Syrian christianity, you have to communicate it. Until you can do that there is no sense trying to solicit more sense from you than you seem to want to provide.
ghost wrote:http://2013.inarah.de/index.php?id=127
Wenn die Islamwissenschaft die frühislamische Geschichte nicht vom späteren Traditionellen Bericht her deuten würde, hätte ihr der eigenartige Name Maavia, der „Heuler“ („Weiner“ o.ä., ein lautmalerischer Name) auffallen müssen. Wieso bezeichnet sich ein Herrscher auf diese, nicht gerade imperiale Weise? Sicherlich weil er, wie nicht zu Unrecht vermutet wurde, die in der Antike hochgeschätzte „Gabe der Tränen“, z.B. bei der Betrachtung der Passion Jesu, besaß. Es scheint aber noch einen konkreteren Hinweis zu geben: Jean Maurice Fiey berichtet in seinem Buch „Saints Syriaques“[27] von einem aus der Theologiegeschichte bekannten (der alexandrinischen Theologie bzw. dem Monophysitismus zuneigenden) Mönch namens Barsauma aus der Gegend von Samosata (gest. 458), der „chef des pleureurs“, Anführer der Heuler, der Maavias, war. Diese nun waren nicht nur fromme Mönche und friedliche Klosterinsassen, sondern militante Gesellen, die unter seiner Führung 438 die in Jerusalem wieder ansässigen Juden vertrieben, während des Konzils von Ephesus im Jahr 449 (Leo I.: „Räubersynode“) nicht vor Handgreiflichkeiten gegen die Konzilsteilnehmer zurückschreckten und zum Konzil von Chalkedon 451 mit einer Horde von angeblich 1.000 Mönchen anrückten, die aber verjagt wurden.[28]
http://2013.inarah.de/index.php?id=127#_ftn27
[27] Jean Maurice Fiey, Saints Syriaques (Studies in Late Antiquity and Early Islam, Bd. 6, hg. von Lawrence I. Conrad), Princeton, New Jersey 2004.

[28] J.M. Fiey, ebd. 49.50.
http://www.calvin.edu/petra/about/nabataeans.php
When the city was struck by a major earthquake in AD 363 a new chapter in the city's history began.

THE BYZANTINE ERA

That chapter brought Christianity to Petra. And although Christianity came slowly to Petra legend has it that the conversion process was completed by a Syrian monk named Barsauma in AD 423. A hermit, Barsauma was said to always wear an iron tunic — for maximum discomfort — and his life consisted of roaming the countryside destroying pagan temples and converting the pagans to Christianity.
Dysexlia lures • ⅔ of what we see is behind our eyes
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