Mark 13:32 versus Mark 9:1 : what is more embarrassing?

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Giuseppe
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Mark 13:32 versus Mark 9:1 : what is more embarrassing?

Post by Giuseppe »

Here Jesus is not omniscient (even if he is higher than angels):
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father

(Mark 13:32)

Here Jesus is omniscient (but confuted by facts in the real History):

And he said to them, "Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.

(Mark 9:1)

Could these two passages be from the same pen?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Mark 13:32 versus Mark 9:1 : what is more embarrassing?

Post by Giuseppe »

I think that the answer is: Mark 13:32 is more embarrassing and it caused the addition of Mark 9:1. The embarrassment is provoked by the absolute foreigness of the Father, since only he knows the day of the end. This would make Jesus an imperfect being in comparison to the Father, precisely what some Gnostics preached about a mere man Jesus and a distinct Christ who is one with the Father (and therefore impassible like him).

To correct that view, Jesus is made omniscient in 9:1.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
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Giuseppe
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Re: Mark 13:32 versus Mark 9:1 : what is more embarrassing?

Post by Giuseppe »

It should be noted that in Mark 13:32 the ignorance of the Son raises an abyss between him and the Father, but then also a greater abyss between the mere man Jesus and the Son (Christ). So accordingly the Son is not Jesus but the Christ his spiritual possessor. The separationism of proto-Mark was more embarrassing than a failed apocalyptic prophet of Mark 9:1.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Bernard Muller
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Re: Mark 13:32 versus Mark 9:1 : what is more embarrassing?

Post by Bernard Muller »

To Giuseppe,
There is nothing embarrassing about these 2 verses. Essentially you can combined the two as such : Some of you will see the coming of the Kingdom of God, but exactly when, during your lifetime, we (except the Father) do not know.

Cordially, Bernard
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