Jesus was never unaware of the his identity

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
Giuseppe
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Jesus was never unaware of the his identity

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:21 am

In the hymn to Philippians, Jesus descended already adult in the place where he was crucified. This is required because the alternative (that Jesus descended by a human birth) implies a baby Jesus who is not aware of what he was doing, so breaking the continuity of the self-awareness of Jesus about what he was doing.

It seems that Luke (2:49-50) knew this difficulty, since he specifies that the baby Jesus knew perfectly the "things of the his own Father" the first time in the Temple.

The self-awareness of Jesus even in the apparent human birth is found in the Ascension of Isaiah. But was it part of the original belief?

I think that the original Ascension of Isaiah may be an old document even if it had the story of the birth of Jesus. Really just in virtue of that.
So it reads:

7And after two months of days, while Joseph was in his house, and Mary his wife, but both alone, it came about, when they were alone, that Mary then looked with her eyes and saw a small infant, and she was astounded. 9And after her astonishment had worn off, her womb was found as (it was) at first, before she had conceived

This Mary is very similar to Eve when the her eyes were opened by the Serpent.
This may be a sign of the gnostic nature of the original document of the Ascension of Isaiah

It seems that the gnostic clues are also found in the following passage:
10And when her husband, Joseph, said to her, "What has made you astounded?" his eyes were opened, and he saw the infant and praised the Lord, because the Lord had come in his lot.

Mary and Joseph believe that the son was from the creator god (they "praised the Lord", afterall), but, in virtue of the fact that also their ignorance has to be assumed about the Son, then the Son has to be from an alien god, different from the creator.
Hence the original gnostic nature of the document.

Question: was the Mark's separationism a way to make Jesus unaware of himself, by de facto separating him from the his divine nature and so making him really who the his relatives believed that he was: a mere Jew from Galilee?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Jesus was never unaware of the his identity

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:26 am

So where I would like to arrive is in the conclusion that where Jesus is aware about himself, we have a gnostic antinomianist Jesus (or the influence of one), while viceversa, where Jesus is unaware about himself, we have deliberate Judaization.

This would make the Markan Jesus more similar to an ebionite Jesus than we had thought.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
Posts: 4991
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Jesus was never unaware of the his identity

Post by Giuseppe » Tue Mar 05, 2019 5:45 am

Note that Luke, even when he introduces a Jewish boy Jesus who is aware about himself , can't do so without assume a Mary who is unaware about the divine nature of Jesus. But Mary is informed by the boy Jesus about the his true identity. So the original rivalry between false relatives and an entirely alien Son is overcame by a Jesus informing successfully the his relatives about the his real identity.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Post Reply