Why Paul never said the place of the crucifixion

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Giuseppe
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Why Paul never said the place of the crucifixion

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Mar 15, 2019 7:35 am

If I remember well, the question was raised by GDon, also. As a problem for both mythicists and historicists.

An answer may be found in the fact that Paul had fear. Fear of who could listen him and react accordingly. They were powerful spiritual beings, since in any moment they could even rape the Christian women.

1 Corinthians 11:10 :
10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels.

So Paul was moved to silence. If the demons could know from him the fact that they had killed just the Son of God, then they would have repented before the end, so God couldn't destroy them completely for their sins. They would be left in their place, still in possession of the world. God wanted that they remained in the obscurity about the fate of the Son of God. They would have realized only that Paul was preaching a “crucified Christ”, but without knowing basically where and when this Christ was crucified.

The silence of Paul was a military silence. Part of the his war against the “archons of this age”.

Now, since Paul himself says that the his war was “not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Eph 6:12) - a passage that succeed fully to sound pauline despite of being written by a false Paul - the silence of Paul couldn't be caused by earthly rulers, just as the veil was required by him for the women not against the lust of men, but “of angels”.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Bernard Muller
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Re: Why Paul never said the place of the crucifixion

Post by Bernard Muller » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:10 am

to Giuseppe,
Paul gave some indication in his epistles where Jesus was crucified: in Zion (heartland of the Jews) among Jews: http://historical-jesus.info/19.html
When? Not too long ago, because Paul met one of his brother (Gal 1:19) (that James confirmed in Josephus Ant. 20.9.1 executed around 62 AD).
Then of course, the Corinthians converts would already have been told verbally the location and time of the Crucifixion from Paul or/and others (like Cephas/Peter, a close associate of James). What shows in the epistles is not all of what Paul and his converts knew about Jesus.
So Paul was moved to silence. If the demons could know from him the fact that they had killed just the Son of God, then they would have repented before the end, so God couldn't destroy them completely for their sins. They would be left in their place, still in possession of the world. God wanted that they remained in the obscurity about the fate of the Son of God. They would have realized only that Paul was preaching a “crucified Christ”, but without knowing basically where and when this Christ was crucified.
The silence of Paul was a military silence. Part of the his war against the “archons of this age”.
Now, since Paul himself says that the his war was “not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places” (Eph 6:12) - a passage that succeed fully to sound pauline despite of being written by a false Paul - the silence of Paul couldn't be caused by earthly rulers, just as the veil was required by him for the women not against the lust of men, but “of angels”.
Why say "Paul himself" if you acknowledge (as I do) that 'Ephesians' was written by a false Paul?
BTW, Paul never wrote about a war against "archons of this age". And the "archons" are Roman authorities in Romans 13:3.
And how do you know, if the passage in 'Ephesians' allegedly sounds Pauline, it represents the thought of Paul?

Cordially, Bernard
I believe freedom of expression should not be curtailed

Giuseppe
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Re: Why Paul never said the place of the crucifixion

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:55 am

Bernard Muller wrote:
Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:10 am
to Giuseppe,
Paul gave some indication in his epistles where Jesus was crucified: in Zion (heartland of the Jews) among Jews: http://historical-jesus.info/19.html
I don't read in the your link the minimal clue about the place of the crucifixion. Does "Zion" mean Mount Zion? Or all Judea? So where precisely was Jesus killed? Paul doesn't say.

And he doesn't say because a demon could hear him and be forgiven by God for the his crime of killing the Son of God.

Why say "Paul himself" if you acknowledge (as I do) that 'Ephesians' was written by a false Paul?
BTW, Paul never wrote about a war against "archons of this age". And the "archons" are Roman authorities in Romans 13:3.
And how do you know, if the passage in 'Ephesians' allegedly sounds Pauline, it represents the thought of Paul?
Paul was not against Roman authorities. Somewhere in Romans he says that they have to be obejed.Not contrasted. So do 2 + 2.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Bernard Muller
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Re: Why Paul never said the place of the crucifixion

Post by Bernard Muller » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:23 am

to Giuseppe,
I don't read in the your link the minimal clue about the place of the crucifixion. Does "Zion" mean Mount Zion? Or all Judea? So where precisely was Jesus killed? Paul doesn't say.
The place is Zion. And in second half of my web page, I explained what was understood as "Zion" in the days of Paul and way prior to that. In any cases, it is an earthly place, centered on Jerusalem. And "Zion" means "Zion", not "Mount Zion".
Anyway , Mount Zion is according to Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Zion:
Mount Zion (Hebrew: הַר צִיּוֹן, Har Tsiyyon; Arabic: جبل صهيون‎, Jabal Sahyoun) is a hill in Jerusalem just outside the walls of the Old City. The term Mount Zion has been used in the Hebrew Bible first for the City of David (2 Samuel 5:7, 1 Chronicles 11:5; 1 Kings 8:1, 2 Chronicles 5:2) and later for the Temple Mount, but its meaning has shifted and it is now used as the name of ancient Jerusalem's Western Hill.[1][2] In a wider sense, the term is also used for the entire Land of Israel.[3]
And I did not say that "Zion" was a precise place, but it is certainly on earth, and within Palestine.

Cordially, Bernard
I believe freedom of expression should not be curtailed

Bernard Muller
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Re: Why Paul never said the place of the crucifixion

Post by Bernard Muller » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:28 am

to Giuseppe,
An answer may be found in the fact that Paul had fear. Fear of who could listen him and react accordingly. They were powerful spiritual beings, since in any moment they could even rape the Christian women.
1 Corinthians 11:10 :
10 It is for this reason that a woman ought to have authority over her own head, because of the angels.
How do you know that 1 Cor 11:10 is about fear, and angels want to rape women with no head cover?
Furthermore angels are not demons.
So Paul was moved to silence. If the demons could know from him the fact that they had killed just the Son of God, then they would have repented before the end, so God couldn't destroy them completely for their sins. They would be left in their place, still in possession of the world. God wanted that they remained in the obscurity about the fate of the Son of God.
Unfounded assumptions, again.

Cordially, Bernard
I believe freedom of expression should not be curtailed

Giuseppe
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Re: Why Paul never said the place of the crucifixion

Post by Giuseppe » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:52 am

the Deliverer will come out of Zion, and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob
Ok, Zion, i.e. Jerusalem. So a phantom was "seen" there after the his death (or before, if the Eucharist episode is genuine in Paul) and gave instructions to early Christians to go to the entire world. But what confirmed you that he died precisely in "Zion"?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Bernard Muller
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Re: Why Paul never said the place of the crucifixion

Post by Bernard Muller » Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:19 pm

to Giuseppe,
Ok, Zion, i.e. Jerusalem. So a phantom was "seen" there after the his death (or before, if the Eucharist episode is genuine in Paul) and gave instructions to early Christians to go to the entire world.
Who said "a phantom"? For Paul, Jesus had been an earthly human:
As a reminder: "Israelites, ... whose [are] the fathers, and of whom [is] the Christ, according to the flesh ..." (Ro9:4-5 YLT) and "come of a woman, come under law" (Gal4:4 YLT) (as a descendant of (allegedly) Abraham (Gal3:16), Jesse (Ro15:12) & David (Ro1:3)), "found in appearance as a man" (Php2:8) "in the likeness of sinful flesh" (Ro8:3), "the one man, Jesus Christ" (Ro5:15) (who had brothers (1Co9:5), one of them called "James", whom Paul met (Gal1:19)), "humbled himself" (Php2:8) in "poverty" (2Co8:9) as "servant of the Jews" (Ro15:8) and "was crucified in weakness" (2Co13:4) in "Zion" (Ro9:31-33 & Ro11:26-27).

BTW, I found the 'Eucharist' passage in 1 Corinthians is a later interpolation (http://historical-jesus.info/co1c.html#adb).

And a resurrected Jesus (giving instructions to his disciples (not early Christians) as in gMatthew) is fiction. Because these eyewitness followers were never Christians (see http://historical-jesus.info/108.html) and never believed in any Resurrection (http://historical-jesus.info/8.html). See also http://historical-jesus.info/9.html about 1 Co 15:3-11 being also an interpolation.
But what confirmed you that he died precisely in "Zion"?
As I explained, Romans 9:31-33 & Romans 11:26-27 (http://historical-jesus.info/19.html).
And Jesus, as an earthly human, like any other humans, had to die on earth.

Cordially, Bernard
I believe freedom of expression should not be curtailed

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