Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:46 am

Oh please not this again. I've shown you that the translations take the awkwardness of the Hebrew grammatical formation (i.e. using 'escape' in ways that wouldn't be natural in English or other languages) and loosely translated the original to conform with everyday speech in the new language. The Hebrew speaks of 'escape' not 'release.' There is no point going over this again.

I notice that you Dubourg has written on the subject of Cornelius Agrippa. There is a long history in Europe of developing 'Christian kabbalah.' Most of the arguments used by the authors are downright silly and uninformed. No wonder you are attracted to it/them.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:53 am

And remember these people, the Christian kabbalists, were very happy to allow for the gospel to have originally been written in Hebrew by Jews. Are you - as an anti-Semite who wants Christianity to have nothing to do with Judaism - prepared for the consequences of positing that the gospel was originally written by and for Jews? Really? It seems you have to decide between your desire to make Pilate related to a Hebrew term communicated among native Hebrew speakers, and your desire to distance Christianity from Judaism. Unless you think that there were Gentiles who were fluent enough in Hebrew to take play on words (which don't work in Hebrew).
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Giuseppe
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:03 am

Differently from you, I know to recognize when a coincidence is too much impossible to be a “mere coincidence”.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Giuseppe
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:28 am

In addition, we have a lot of cases in the Gospels, especially in Mark, where a name of a person or of a place means precisely what that person does sic et simpliciter, or what happens sic et simpliciter in that place.


So, the most simple thing done by Pilate, in absolute terms, is to release Barabbas. Period. Stop. So he is a releaser per se. How can be a mere “coincidence” that PLT can mean also "to release a prisoner" (especially during the invocations) ?
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:30 am

I know to recognize when a coincidence is too much impossible to be a “mere coincidence”.
In a language you don't speak or have any knowledge or formal education?
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Giuseppe
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:37 am

Secret Alias wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:30 am
I know to recognize when a coincidence is too much impossible to be a “mere coincidence”.
In a language you don't speak or have any knowledge or formal education?
I am graduated in mathematics ("Bachelor's degree") and computer science (master's degree). The rest is mere hobby.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:02 am

But this isn't mathematics. It's Hebrew. You're implying that you know enough to recognize play on words in Hebrew in a proposed gospel text (i.e. a Hebrew gospel) that doesn't exist any longer. That's not recognizing patterns, that's poetic license.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Giuseppe
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:33 am

It is said that the word “Jairus” may be from Heb. יָעִ֗יר, “he will awaken”, which corresponds to the daughter’s “awakening” . Is it mere poetic license?
It is said that the name Bethphage in Hebrew means “House of unripe figs” — recalling that in this area Jesus caused a fig tree with no fruit to wither (Matthew 21:18-22). Is it mere poetic license?
It is said that Arimathea means "best disciple" since Joseph didn't run away differently from the 12 disciples. Is it mere poetic license?

With equal probability (or even better probability), I assume that Pilate is connected with PLT in the sense of "making escape possible".
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Secret Alias » Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:37 am

It is said that the word “Jairus” may be from ARAMAIC עִיר, “to awake”.


In Hebrew it designates a city https://studybible.info/strongs/H5892. It can mean angel or watcher. https://referenceworks.brillonline.com/ ... DO_Watcher Do you see the difficulty you already face? You are walking on landmines you don't know are exploding all around you. Ignorance is not bliss it is foolishness.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Giuseppe
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Re: Why Pilate? Because of: “PâLaT bar-Abbas” : “Free Barabbas!”

Post by Giuseppe » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:32 am

Secret Alias wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 10:37 am
It is said that the word “Jairus” may be from ARAMAIC עִיר, “to awake”.


In Hebrew it designates a city https://studybible.info/strongs/H5892. It can mean angel or watcher. https://referenceworks.brillonline.com/ ... DO_Watcher Do you see the difficulty you already face? You are walking on landmines you don't know are exploding all around you. Ignorance is not bliss it is foolishness.
but given the immediate contest, Jairus means "to awake ". There is where I lose you. It is evident that you don't place Pilate in the right context (where he is de facto a simple "releaser", without further puzzles).
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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