How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

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PontiusPilate
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How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by PontiusPilate » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:20 am

Hello guys,

I have been reading some of the topics on this forum with great interest but I am quite new here. I am not a native English speaker, so I apologize for my grammatical mistakes. :|

To come straight to the point, I have a question about Joseph of Nazareth. Today it is generally believed by most scholars that the birth narratives in Luke and Matthew were inventions to let Jesus fulfill the prophecies of the Old Testament. (That the Messiah should be born in Betlehem.) I personally agree on this.

Since these stories are not historical, we have no other references to the name of Joseph in the entire New Testament. I am wondering if Matthew and Luke used a common source for the name of Joseph. Any thoughts on this? (Or is there any historian who did research to this?)

With kind regards,

Pontius Pilate ;)

Giuseppe
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:33 am


15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 “Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, ‘Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.’ Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, ‘Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.’ 17 Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.

(Ezekiel 37:15-17)

But note that the Birth stories were probably meant to judaize the nature of Jesus against Marcion, since in Mark and in Mcn he is not really son of David, even less of Joseph.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

PontiusPilate
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by PontiusPilate » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:13 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:33 am

15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 “Son of man, take a stick of wood and write on it, ‘Belonging to Judah and the Israelites associated with him.’ Then take another stick of wood, and write on it, ‘Belonging to Joseph (that is, to Ephraim) and all the Israelites associated with him.’ 17 Join them together into one stick so that they will become one in your hand.

(Ezekiel 37:15-17)
Wow, that prophecy is interesting. Does this mean that both Matthew and Luke took Joseph's name from this prophecy?
But note that the Birth stories were probably meant to judaize the nature of Jesus against Marcion, since in Mark and in Mcn he is not really son of David, even less of Joseph.
Weren't the gospels of Luke and Matthew written before Marcion? :eh:

Giuseppe
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:43 am

PontiusPilate wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:13 am
Weren't the gospels of Luke and Matthew written before Marcion? :eh:
So the consensus. But obviously I follow the my way. :whistling:
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

PontiusPilate
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by PontiusPilate » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:52 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:43 am
PontiusPilate wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:13 am
Weren't the gospels of Luke and Matthew written before Marcion? :eh:
So the consensus. But obviously I follow the my way. :whistling:
All right, let's focus focus on the prophecy then. Was Ezekiel 37:15-17 considered to be a serious prophecy by Jews in the first century?

Giuseppe
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:53 am

PontiusPilate wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:52 am
All right, let's focus focus on the prophecy then. Was Ezekiel 37:15-17 considered to be a serious prophecy by Jews in the first century?
On this I am not able to answer. Ask to true experts of the forum.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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arnoldo
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by arnoldo » Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:59 am

Giuseppe wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:43 am
PontiusPilate wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:13 am
Weren't the gospels of Luke and Matthew written before Marcion? :eh:
So the consensus. But obviously I follow the my way. :whistling:
My question is what criteria is used to determine Marcion is a histerical figure? ;)

Giuseppe
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by Giuseppe » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:09 am

arnoldo wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:59 am
a histerical figure?
:?:
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

PontiusPilate
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by PontiusPilate » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:31 am

arnoldo wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:59 am
Giuseppe wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:43 am
PontiusPilate wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:13 am
Weren't the gospels of Luke and Matthew written before Marcion? :eh:
So the consensus. But obviously I follow the my way. :whistling:
My question is what criteria is used to determine Marcion is a historical figure? ;)
That has nothing to do with this topic. ;) Any thoughts on that?

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arnoldo
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Re: How did Matthew and Luke get the name of Joseph of Nazareth?

Post by arnoldo » Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:56 am

PontiusPilate wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 10:31 am
arnoldo wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:59 am
Giuseppe wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:43 am
PontiusPilate wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 9:13 am
Weren't the gospels of Luke and Matthew written before Marcion? :eh:
So the consensus. But obviously I follow the my way. :whistling:
My question is what criteria is used to determine Marcion is a historica historical figure? ;)
That has nothing to do with this topic. ;) Any thoughts on that?
Yes, sorry about the typo corrected above. You asked whether the gospel of Luke and Matthew were written before Marcion, no? What date range is estimated to be for this Marcion? Sorry, english is not my native language. :(

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