Signs that Against Marcion was Written During the Reign of Commodus

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Secret Alias
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Signs that Against Marcion was Written During the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

I have long commented on the fact that a secondary editor, writing in Latin, has recomposed Against Marcion from a previous text which was written in Greek. There are many arguments for this understanding, the most clear cut is that the editor stitched Against the Jews into a large portion of Book Three with almost verbatim parallels in Latin. In other words, he copied a pre-existent Latin text as opposed to translating a Greek Against the Jews into Latin. But here's another wrinkle to this discussion.

The words which follow the introduction which speaks of the editor 'recomposing' or rescuing an original core text 'tampered with' by a previous apostate is immediately followed by a long discussion of the 'Pontic' nature of Marcion. I think if we look carefully at this section the 'Pontic' nature is very much an 'Amazonian' nature of the sect. The Amazons derived their origin from the Black Sea. Plutarch mentions that the campaign(s) of Heracles and Theseus against the Amazons was at Euxine Sea (modern Black Sea).
The origin of the word is uncertain. It may be derived from an Iranian ethnonym *ha-mazan- "warriors", a word attested indirectly through a derivation, a denominal verb in Hesychius of Alexandria's gloss "ἁμαζακάραν· πολεμεῖν. Πέρσαι" ("hamazakaran: 'to make war' in Persian"), where it appears together with the Indo-Iranian root *kar- "make" (from which Sanskrit karma is also derived).[17]

It may also be derived from *ṇ-mṇ-gw-jon-es "manless, without husbands" (a- privative and a derivation of *man- also found in Slavic muzh) has been proposed, an explanation deemed "unlikely" by Hjalmar Frisk.[18] 19th-century scholarship also connected the term to the ethnonym Amazigh.[19] A further explanation proposes Iranian *ama-janah "virility-killing" as source.[20]

The Hittite researcher Friedrich Cornelius assumes that there had been the land Azzi with the capital Chajasa in the area of the Thermodon-Iris Delta on the coast of the Black Sea. He brings its residents in direct relation to the Amazons, namely based on its name (woman of the land Azzi = 'Am'+ 'Azzi' = Amazon) and its customs (matriarchal custom of promiscuous sexual intercourse, even with blood relatives). The location of that land as well as his conclusions are controversial.

— Gerhard Pollauer[21]
Among Classical Greeks, amazon was given a folk etymology as originating from a- (ἀ-) and mazos (μαζός), "without breast", connected with an etiological tradition once claimed by Marcus Justinus who alleged that Amazons had their right breast cut off or burnt out.[22] There is no indication of such a practice in ancient works of art,[23] in which the Amazons are always represented with both breasts, although one is frequently covered.[24][23] Adrienne Mayor suggests the origin of this myth was due to the word's etymology.
In Against Marcion we see a reflection of countless Amazon-Euxine allusions.
The sea called Euxine, or hospitable, is belied by its nature and put to ridicule by its name. Even its situation would prevent you from reckoning Pontus hospitable: as though ashamed of its own barbarism it has set itself at a distance from our more civilized waters. Strange tribes inhabit it—if indeed living in a wagon can be called inhabiting. These have no certain dwelling-place: their life is uncouth: their sexual activity is promiscuous, and for the most part naked (plurimum nuda) even when they hide it: they advertise it by hanging a quiver on the yoke of the wagon, so that none may inadvertently break in while they are having sex https://www.newyorker.com/books/joshua- ... al-amazons, https://books.google.com/books?id=rboWB ... 22&f=false. So little respect have they for their weapons of war. They carve up their fathers' corpses along with mutton, to gulp down at banquets. If any die in a condition not good for eating, their death is a disgrace.
Herodotus 1.216 Now, for their customs: each man marries a wife, but the wives are common to all. The Greeks say this is a Scythian custom; it is not so, but a custom of the Massagetae. There, when a man desires a woman, he hangs his quiver before her waggon, and has intercourse with her, none hindering. Though they set no certain term to life, yet when a man is very old all his kin meet together and kill him, with beasts of the flock besides, then boil the flesh and feast on it. This is held to be the happiest death; when a man dies of sickness they do not eat him, but bury him in the earth, and lament that he would not live to be killed.
Women also have lost the gentleness, along with the modesty, of their sex. They display their breasts, they do their house-work with battle-axes, they prefer fighting to matrimonial duty.
Hellanikos of Lesbos (ca. 480-ca. 400 B.C.) a contemporary of Herodotos: " they are called Amazons because they cut off their right breast to prevent it from getting in the way when they use their bows. This is untrue, because that would have been fatal to them.


There is sternness also in the climate—never broad daylight, the sun always niggardly, the only air they have is fog, the whole year is winter, every wind that blows is the north wind. Water becomes water only by heating: rivers are no rivers, only ice: mountains are piled high up with snow: all is torpid, everything stark. https://books.google.com/books?id=VFS4q ... ns&f=false

Savagery is there the only thing warm—such savagery as has provided the theatre with tales of Tauric sacrifices (Iphigenia of Euripides), Colchian love-affairs (Medea of Euripides), and Caucasian crucifixions (Prometheus of Aeschylus). Even so, the most barbarous and melancholy thing about
Pontus is that Marcion was born there, more uncouth than a Scythian, more unsettled than a Wagon-dweller, more uncivilized than a Massagete, with more effrontery than an Amazon, darker than fog, colder than winter, more brittle than ice, more treacherous than the Danube, more precipitous than Caucasus. Evidently so, when by him the true Prometheus, God Almighty, is torn to bits with blasphemies. More ill-conducted also is Marcion than the wild beasts of that barbarous land: for is any beaver more self-castrating (castor castrator carnis) than this man who has abolished marriage? What Pontic mouse is more corrosive than the man who has gnawed away the Gospels? Truly the Euxine has given birth to a wild animal more acceptable to philosophers than to Christians: that dog-worshipper Diogenes carried a lamp about at midday, looking to find a man, whereas Marcion by putting out the light of his own faith has lost the God whom once he had found.
The question of course did the Amazonian connect lead to Marcion being born in Pontus or vice versa. I think the former. The clearest proof of this is the location of the Amazonian city Themiskrya:

Image
Last edited by Secret Alias on Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Secret Alias
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written AFTER the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

It has already been noted that 'Marcion' is inserted into the Roman bishopric chronology in the place formerly held by Marcellina. The underlying connection might be Marcia 'the Amazon' the concubine of Commodus.

Historia Augusta
Certain months were renamed in his honour by his flatterers; for August they substituted Commodus, for September Hercules, for October Invictus, for November Exsuperatorius, and for December Amazonius, after his own surname.87 9 He had been called Amazonius, moreover, because of his passion for his concubine Marcia,88 whom he loved to have portrayed as an Amazon, and for whose sake he even wished to enter the arena of Rome dressed as an Amazon.
Μαρκία + ων = Μαρκίων
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written AFTER the Reign of Commodus

Post by Giuseppe »

A clue of the presence of Marcion there:

Paul and his companions traveled throughout the region of Phrygia and Galatia, having been kept by the Holy Spirit from preaching the word in the province of Asia

(Acts 16:6)
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.
Secret Alias
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written AFTER the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

The pun between 'castor' and 'castrate' only works in Latin as a pun but the idea that beaver's castrate themselves is older than that. It goes back to Egyptian sources and Greek writers after that - so it doesn't prove which author was active in this section.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written AFTER the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

What immediately follows seems to be the core argument of the original Greek text:
The heretic of Pontus introduces two Gods (Duos Ponticus deos affert), like the twin Symplegades of his own shipwreck:
Image
One whom it was impossible to deny, i.e. our Creator; and one whom he will never be able to prove, i.e. his own god. The unhappy man gained the first inspiration of his conceit from the simple passage of our Lord's saying, which has reference to human beings and not divine ones, wherein He disposes of those examples of a good tree and a corrupt one;31 how that "the good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit, neither the corrupt tree good fruit." Which means, that an honest mind and good faith cannot produce evil deeds, any more than an evil disposition can produce good deeds. [2] Now (like many other persons now-a-days, especially those who have an heretical proclivity), while morbidly brooding over the question of the origin of evil, his perception became blunted by the very irregularity of his researches; and when he found the Creator declaring, "I am He that createth evil," inasmuch as he had already concluded from other arguments, which are satisfactory to every perverted mind, that God is the author of evil, so he now applied to the Creator the figure of the corrupt tree bringing forth evil fruit, that is, moral evil, and then presumed that there ought to be another god, after the analogy of the good tree producing its good fruit. Accordingly, finding in Christ a different disposition, as it were--one of a simple and pure benevolence --differing from the Creator, he readily argued that in his Christ had been revealed a new and strange divinity; and then with a little leaven he leavened the whole lump of the faith, flavouring it with the acidity of his own heresy.

He had, moreover, in one Cerdon an abettor of this blasphemy,--a circumstance which made them the more readily think that they saw most clearly their two gods, blind though they were; for, in truth, they had not seen the one God with soundness of faith. To men of diseased vision even one lamp looks like many. One of his gods, therefore, whom he was obliged to acknowledge, he destroyed by defaming his attributes in the matter of evil; the other, whom he laboured so hard to devise, he constructed, laying his foundation39 in the principle of good. In what articles40 he arranged these natures, we show by our own refutations of them.
It may not be readily apparent to modern readers but this reference is steeped in Amazon tradition. Heracles went to Colchis with the Argonauts, got the Golden Girdle of the Amazons and slew the Stymphalian Birds.
The only way to reach Colchis was to sail through the Symplegades (Clashing Rocks), huge rock cliffs that came together and crushed anything that traveled between them. Phineas told Jason to release a dove when they approached these islands, and if the dove made it through, to row with all their might. If the dove was crushed, he was doomed to fail. Jason released the dove as advised, which made it through, losing only a few tail feathers. Seeing this, they rowed strongly and made it through with minor damage at the extreme stern of the ship. From that time on, the clashing rocks were forever joined leaving free passage for others to pass.

Jason arrived in Colchis (modern Black Sea coast of Georgia) to claim the fleece as his own. It was owned by King Aeetes of Colchis. The fleece was given to him by Phrixus. Aeetes promised to give it to Jason only if he could perform three certain tasks. Presented with the tasks, Jason became discouraged and fell into depression. However, Hera had persuaded Aphrodite to convince her son Eros to make Aeetes' daughter, Medea, fall in love with Jason. As a result, Medea aided Jason in his tasks. First, Jason had to plow a field with fire-breathing oxen, the Khalkotauroi, that he had to yoke himself. Medea provided an ointment that protected him from the oxen's flames. Then, Jason sowed the teeth of a dragon into a field. The teeth sprouted into an army of warriors (spartoi). Medea had previously warned Jason of this and told him how to defeat this foe. Before they attacked him, he threw a rock into the crowd. Unable to discover where the rock had come from, the soldiers attacked and defeated one another. His last task was to overcome the sleepless dragon which guarded the Golden Fleece. Jason sprayed the dragon with a potion, given by Medea, distilled from herbs. The dragon fell asleep, and Jason was able to seize the Golden Fleece.[18] He then sailed away with Medea. Medea distracted her father, who chased them as they fled, by killing her brother Apsyrtus and throwing pieces of his body into the sea; Aeetes stopped to gather them. In another version, Medea lured Apsyrtus into a trap. Jason killed him, chopped off his fingers and toes, and buried the corpse. In any case, Jason and Medea escaped.
Remember also that one of the prevalent etymologies of the name 'Jesus' or 'IS' was Jason. This is why the name was associated with 'healing.'
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written AFTER the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

On the ease with which the stories and legends associated with Jason and the Argonauts were incorporated into Christianity see John of Niciuhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_Niki%C3%BB:
CHAPTER XL. 1. And in those days also lived the hero Heracles and the Argonauts, the people that were with Jason. And they |32 went to the Hellespont. 2. And the people (of the Hellespont) had a king named Cyzicus. And they attacked and slew the king Cyzicus without knowing it. 3. And when they learned (this), they were grieved; for they were all his kinsmen (and he was sprung) from their country. 4. And after they had attacked Cyzicus, who was called the lord of the seven images, and won the victory <they built a temple in Cyzicum, and> named its name Rhea, which is by interpretation, mother of the gods. 5. It is told (further) that they went to the place of those who announced (oracles) and to the seat of the elders and asked one of them, saying: 'Prophesy to us, O prophet, servant of Apollo, of what nature this building will be and to whom shall it belong.' 6. And they presented gifts to him who spake to them and he said unto them : 'There are three (Persons) but one God only. And behold a virgin will conceive His word, and this house will be His and His name shall belong to thousands.' 7. And the idolaters wrote down this prophecy on a fragment of marble with a brazen pen, and they placed it in one of the temples. 8. After these times in the days of the Godloving emperor Zeno, this temple was converted into a church, dedicated to the holy Virgin Mary, the Mother of God. 9. This the emperor Zeno did at his own costs. And thus was accomplished the prophecy of the demons who proclaimed the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

CHAPTER XLI. 1. The Argonauts sailed to the Hellespont to an island named Principus. 2. Thence they went to Chalcedon and sought to pass into the sea of Pontus. 3. But the inhabitants brought with them a man of valour and fought with them. (And) he gained the mastery and overcame them. 4. And fearing the wrath of this man, they fled to a very desolate extremity of the coast. 5. And they saw a mighty portent from heaven which resembled a man with great wings on his shoulders after the likeness of a very terrible eagle. 6. And it said unto them: 'When ye fight with Amyous ye will overcome.' And when they heard these words from the apparition which they saw, they |33 took courage and fought and overcame him and slew him. 7. And they honoured that place where they had seen the mighty figure, and they built there a temple and they placed in it a statue resembling the apparition they had seen. 8. And they named this temple Sosthenium because they had sought refuge there and were saved. And so they name it unto this day. 9. And in the days of Constantine, the greatest and most illustrious of Christian emperors, the servant of Jesus Christ, when he first established the seat of empire in Byzantium, that is in Rome, he came to the Sosthenium to close the temple of the idols to be found there. 10. And when he saw the statue which was in it, he at once recognized that it was the statue of an angel. And as his thoughts were troubled with doubts he prayed and besought our Lord Jesus Christ in whom he trusted, saying: 'Make me to know, O Lord, whose image this is.' 11. And thereupon he fell asleep and heard in a vision that the image was the image of S. Michael the archangel. 12. Having learnt that it was he who had sent people to fight Amycus the emperor caused this temple to be adorned and commanded them to turn it to the east and [commanded them] to consecrate it in the name of the archangel Michael.

13. And numerous miracles were wrought in this (temple) through healings of the sick. And after that Christians began to build churches in the name of S. Michael the chief of the angels. And they offered in them holy offerings unto God.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written AFTER the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

From the Argonautia of Apollonius of Rhodes:
"First of all, after leaving me, ye will see the twin Cyanean rocks where the two seas meet. No one, I ween, has won his escape between them. For they are not firmly fixed with roots beneath, but constantly clash against one another to one point, and above a huge mass of salt water rises in a crest, boiling up, and loudly dashes upon the hard beach. Wherefore now obey my counsel, if indeed with prudent mind and reverencing the blessed gods ye pursue your way; and perish not foolishly by a self-sought death, or rush on following the guidance of youth. First entrust the attempt to a dove when ye have sent her forth from the ship. And if she escapes safe with her wings between the rocks to the open sea, then no more do ye refrain from the path, but grip your oars well in your hands and cleave the sea's narrow strait, for the light of safety will be not so much in prayer as in strength of hands. Wherefore let all else go and labour boldly with might and main, but ere then implore the gods as ye will, I forbid you not. But if she flies onward and perishes midway, then do ye turn back; for it is better to yield to the immortals. For ye could not escape an evil doom from the rocks, not even if Argo were of iron."

(ll. 341-359) "O hapless ones, dare not to transgress my divine warning, even though ye think that I am thrice as much hated by the sons of heaven as I am, and even more than thrice; dare not to sail further with your ship in despite of the omen. And as these things will fall, so shall they fall. But if ye shun the clashing rocks and come scatheless inside Pontus, straightway keep the land of the Bithynians on your right and sail on, and beware of the breakers, until ye round the swift river Rhebas and the black beach, and reach the harbour of the Isle of Thynias. Thence ye must turn back a little space through the sea and beach your ship on the land of the Mariandyni lying opposite. Here is a downward path to the abode of Hades, and the headland of Acherusia stretches aloft, and eddying Acheron cleaves its way at the bottom, even through the headland, and sends its waters forth from a huge ravine. And near it ye will sail past many hills of the Paphlagonians, over whom at the first Eneteian Pelops reigned, and of his blood they boast themselves to be."

(ll. 360-406) "Now there is a headland opposite Helice the Bear, steep on all sides, and they call it Carambis, about whose crests the blasts of the north wind are sundered. So high in the air does it rise turned towards the sea. And when ye have rounded it broad Aegialus stretches before you; and at the end of broad Aegialus, at a jutting point of coast, the waters of the river Halys pour forth with a terrible roar; and after it his flowing near, but smaller in stream, rolls into the sea with white eddies. Onward from thence the bend of a huge and towering cape reaches out from the land, next Thermodon at its mouth flows into a quiet bay at the Themiscyreian headland, after wandering through a broad continent. And here is the plain of Doeas, and near are the three cities of the Amazons, and after them the Chalybes, most wretched of men, possess a soil rugged and unyielding sons of toil, they busy themselves with working iron. And near them dwell the Tibareni, rich in sheep, beyond the Genetaean headland of Zeus, lord of hospitality. And bordering on it the Mossynoeci next in order inhabit the well-wooded mainland and the parts beneath the mountains, who have built in towers made from trees their wooden homes and well-fitted chambers, which they call Mossynes, and the people themselves take their name from them. After passing them ye must beach your ship upon a smooth island, when ye have driven away with all manner of skill the ravening birds, which in countless numbers haunt the desert island. In it the Queens of the Amazons, Otrere and Antiope, built a stone temple of Ares what time they went forth to war. Now here an unspeakable help will come to you from the bitter sea; wherefore with kindly intent I bid you stay. But what need is there that I should sin yet again declaring everything to the end by my prophetic art? And beyond the island and opposite mainland dwell the Philyres: and above the Philyres are the Macrones, and after them the vast tribes of the Becheiri. And next in order to them dwell the Sapeires, and the Byzeres have the lands adjoining to them, and beyond them at last live the warlike Colchians themselves. But speed on in your ship, till ye touch the inmost bourne of the sea. And here at the Cytaean mainland and from the Amarantine mountains far away and the Circaean plain, eddying Phasis rolls his broad stream to the sea. Guide your ship to the mouth of that river and ye shall behold the towers of Cytaean Aeetes and the shady grove of Ares, where a dragon, a monster terrible to behold, ever glares around, keeping watch over the fleece that is spread upon the top of an oak; neither by day nor by night does sweet sleep subdue his restless eyes."
That 'Ares' is the god of the Amazons is significant because in Latin Ares is Mars the root of the name Marcus, Marcia and Marcion.
Next they beheld the barrow of Sthenelus, Actor's son, who on his way back from the valorous war against the Amazons—for he had been the comrade of Heracles—was struck by an arrow and died there upon the sea-beach. And for a time they went no further, for Persephone herself sent forth the spirit of Actor's son which craved with many tears to behold men like himself, even for a moment. And mounting on the edge of the barrow he gazed upon the ship, such as he was when he went to war; and round his head a fair helm with four peaks gleamed with its blood-red crest. And again he entered the vast gloom; and they looked and marvelled; and Mopsus, son of Ampycus, with word of prophecy urged them to land and propitiate him with libations. Quickly they drew in sail and threw out hawsers, and on the strand paid honour to the tomb of Sthenelus, and poured out drink offerings to him and sacrificed sheep as victims. And besides the drink offerings they built an altar to Apollo, saviour of ships, and burnt thigh bones; and Orpheus dedicated his lyre; whence the place has the name of Lyra.

(ll. 930-945) And straightway they went aboard as the wind blew strong; and they drew the sail down, and made it taut to both sheets; then Argo was borne over the sea swiftly, even as a hawk soaring high through the air commits to the breeze its outspread wings and is borne on swiftly, nor swerves in its flight, poising in the clear sky with quiet pinions. And lo, they passed by the stream of Parthenius as it flows into the sea, a most gentle river, where the maid, daughter of Leto, when she mounts to heaven after the chase, cools her limbs in its much-desired waters. Then they sped onward in the night without ceasing, and passed Sesamus and lofty Erythini, Crobialus, Cromna and woody Cytorus. Next they swept round Carambis at the rising of the sun, and plied the oars past long Aegialus, all day and on through the night.

(ll. 946-965) And straightway they landed on the Assyrian shore where Zeus himself gave a home to Sinope, daughter of Asopus, and granted her virginity, beguiled by his own promises. For he longed for her love, and he promised to grant her whatever her hearts desire might be. And she in her craftiness asked of him virginity. And in like manner she deceived Apollo too who longed to wed her, and besides them the river Halys, and no man ever subdued her in love's embrace. And there the sons of noble Deimachus of Tricca were still dwelling, Deileon, Autolycus and Phlogius, since the day when they wandered far away from Heracles; and they, when they marked the array of chieftains, went to meet them and declared in truth who they were; and they wished to remain there no longer, but as soon as Argestes 1206 blew went on ship-board. And so with them, borne along by the swift breeze, the heroes left behind the river Halys, and left behind his that flows hard by, and the delta-land of Assyria; and on the same day they rounded the distant headland of the Amazons that guards their harbour.

(ll. 966-1001) Here once when Melanippe, daughter of Ares, had, gone forth, the hero Heracles caught her by ambuscade and Hippolyte gave him her glistening girdle as her sister's ransom, and he sent away his captive unharmed. In the bay of this headland, at the outfall of Thermodon, they ran ashore, for the sea was rough for their voyage. No river is like this, and none sends forth from itself such mighty streams over the land. If a man should count every one he would lack but four of a hundred, but the real spring is only one. This flows down to the plain from lofty mountains, which, men say, are called the Amazonian mountains. Thence it spreads inland over a hilly country straight forward; wherefrom its streams go winding on, and they roll on, this way and that ever more, wherever best they can reach the lower ground, one at a distance and another near at hand; and many streams are swallowed up in the sand and are without a name; but, mingled with a few, the main stream openly bursts with its arching crest of foam into the inhospitable Pontus. And they would have tarried there and have closed in battle with the Amazons, and would have fought not without bloodshed for the Amazons were not gentle foes and regarded not justice, those dwellers on the Doeantian plain; but grievous insolence and the works of Ares were all their care; for by race they were the daughters of Ares and the nymph Harmonia, who bare to Ares war-loving maids, wedded to him in the glens of the Acmonian wood had not the breezes of Argestes come again from Zeus; and with the wind they left the rounded beach, where the Themiscyreian Amazons were arming for war. For they dwelt not gathered together in one city, but scattered over the land, parted into three tribes. In one part dwelt the Themiscyreians, over whom at that time Hippolyte reigned, in another the Lycastians, and in another the dart-throwing Chadesians. And the next day they sped on and at nightfall they reached the land of the Chalybes.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
Secret Alias
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written AFTER the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

The point is clearly that it seems unlikely to me that Marcion being born in Pontus is at the heart of all these Amazon references. Rather, in the early references in Against Marcion, you have an Amazonian theme which is more pronounced than anything else. The capital city of the Amazon kingdom was in Pontus. The Amazons were 'Pontic' and so Marcion and Marcionism was Pontic owing to its association with the Amazons. It wasn't that the 'Ponticness' of Marcion is driving the original Greek author to bring in the Amazon thing. The Marcionites were Amazons and the Church was going to war against them like Hercules went to war in Pontus. This is what I get from the opening lines of the original Greek text.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written During the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

And example from Book One where the Latin text's 'pontus' clearly comes from an original Greek text that read πόντος i.e. 'sea':
Haesisti, Marcion, in medio Ponti tui aestu. Utrinque te fluctus involvunt veritatis.
You are stuck, Marcion, in the midst of the swell of your own Pontus: the floods of the truth keep you in on one side and the other.
In other words, the original text read:
You are stuck, Marcion, in the midst of the swell of your own sea: the floods of the truth keep you in on one side and the other.
I tend to think that this supports the idea that 'Marcion' was a gentilic plural not an individual. For how could a man have a whole - the Pontic - sea to himself? The Amazon connection makes sense.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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Re: Signs that Against Marcion was Written During the Reign of Commodus

Post by Secret Alias »

Tertullian in Book 5 points to the same situation as Celsus - i.e. that most Christians are orthodox:
For there would not have been wanting, in spite of the novel teaching, men to interpret the preached gospel of the Creator's Christ, since the majority of persons everywhere now-a-days are of our way of thinking, rather than on the heretical side. So that the apostle would not in such a passage as the present one have refrained from remarking and censuring the diversity. Since, however, there is no blame of a diversity, there is no proof of a novelty
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote
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