Information Confirmation

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 4:46 amAFAIK, in the case of Paul at least, only the name Iesou is used.

I think.
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?

But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces 1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.

I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
Do you have a link for that errancy? Here is the verse: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/12-3.htm. Or here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/co1012.htm. I also checked LaParola.
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Jax
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Jax »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 pm
Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 4:46 amAFAIK, in the case of Paul at least, only the name Iesou is used.

I think.
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?

But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces 1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.

I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
Do you have a link for that errancy? Here is the verse: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/12-3.htm. Or here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/co1012.htm. I also checked LaParola.
Ah, I have been using https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInt ... _Index.htm
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 4:43 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 pm
Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 4:46 amAFAIK, in the case of Paul at least, only the name Iesou is used.

I think.
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?

But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces 1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.

I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
Do you have a link for that errancy? Here is the verse: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/12-3.htm. Or here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/co1012.htm. I also checked LaParola.
Ah, I have been using https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInt ... _Index.htm
That would reflect the Byzantine text. I was hasty when I called it "errancy," but the Byzantine text is almost alone here.
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Jax
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Jax »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 5:02 pm
Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 4:43 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 pm
Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am

If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?

But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces 1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.

I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
Do you have a link for that errancy? Here is the verse: https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/12-3.htm. Or here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/co1012.htm. I also checked LaParola.
Ah, I have been using https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInt ... _Index.htm
That would reflect the Byzantine text. I was hasty when I called it "errancy," but the Byzantine text is almost alone here.
Ah, does Biblehub reflect the Alexanderian text then?
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Jax wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 4:50 amAh, does Biblehub reflect the Alexanderian text then?
I think it uses Nestle 1904 as the base text. But Nestle 1904 is pretty Alexandrian (as are most modern texts since the days of Westcott and Hort).
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Jax
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Jax »

Ben C. Smith wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 5:23 am
Jax wrote: Thu May 02, 2019 4:50 amAh, does Biblehub reflect the Alexanderian text then?
I think it uses Nestle 1904 as the base text. But Nestle 1904 is pretty Alexandrian (as are most modern texts since the days of Westcott and Hort).
Very well. I will use it instead. :thumbup:
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Jax
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Jax »

Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
Jax wrote: Wed May 01, 2019 4:46 amAFAIK, in the case of Paul at least, only the name Iesou is used.

I think.
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?

But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces 1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.

I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.

I think I'll troll Paul's letters and see what deviations of Iesou there are and where. I'll post back what I find.
And here we are....

Source = https://biblehub.com/interlinear/

1 Corinthians: 25 mentions of Jesus. 18 = Iesou. 2 = Iesoun. 5 = Iesous
2:2 = Iesoun
3:11 = Iesous
8:6 = Iesous
9:1 = Iesoun
11:23 = Iesous
12:3 = Iesous x 2

2 Corinthians: 19 mentions of Jesus. 12 = Iesou. 5 = Iesoun. 2 = Iesous
1:19 = Iesous
4:5 = Iesoun x 2
4:11 = Iesoun
4:14 = Iesoun
11:4 = Iesoun
13:5 = Iesous

Galations: 18 mentions of Jesus. 15 = Iesou. 2 = Iesoun. 1 = Iesous
2:16 = Iesoun
3:1 = Iesous
4:14 = Iesoun

Philippians: 22 mentions of Jesus. 20 = Iesou. 1 = Iesoun. 1 = Iesous
2:11 = Iesous
3:20 = Iesoun

1 Thessalonians: 17 mentions of Jesus. 13 = Iesou. 2 = Iesoun. 2 = Iesous
1:10 = Iesoun
2:15 = Iesoun
3:11 = Iesous
4:14 = Iesous

Romans: 38 mentions of Jesus. 30 = Iesou. 7 = Iesoun. 1 = Iesous
4:24 = Iesoun
6:3 = Iesoun
8:11 = Iesoun x 2
8:34 = Iesous
10:9 = Iesoun
13:14 = Iesoun
15:5 = Iesoun

Philamon: 6 mentions of Jesus. 5 = Iesou. 1 = Iesoun
1:5 = Iesoun

And...…

2 Thessalonians: 13 mentions of Jesus. 11 = Iesou. 2 = Iesous
2:8 = Iesous
2:16 = Iesous

Ephesians: 21 mentions of Jesus. 20 = Iesou. 1 = Iesoun
6:24 = Iesoun

Colossians: 7 mentions of Jesus. 5 = Iesou. 1 = Iesoun. 1 = Iesous
2:6 = Iesoun
4:11 = Iesous

Enjoy. :)
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Ben C. Smith
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Ben C. Smith »

Thanks for that. :) Just a bit of a caveat here: the term Ἰησοῦ may be overweighted regardless, but bear in mind that it actually covers two cases: genitive and dative, whereas both Ἰησοῦς and Ἰησοῦν cover only one each: nominative and accusative, respectively. So some extra weight for Ἰησοῦ is not completely unexpected. (Oh, and actually, Ἰησοῦ is also the vocative, but I doubt that ever comes into play in Paul.)
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DCHindley
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by DCHindley »

Jax,

Ben is right, the case endings have nothing to do with etymology.

code
"NT Book"
"Hits"
Jesus (Case)
case
e "Joh" 205 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
e "Joh" 20 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
e "Joh" 26 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
e "Luk" 63 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
e "Luk" 18 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
e "Luk" 15 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
e "Mar" 68 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
e "Mar" 13 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
e "Mar" 11 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
e "Mat" 130 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
e "Mat" 25 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
e "Mat" 16 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "1Co" 3 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "1Co" 19 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "1Co" 2 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "1Th" 2 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "1Th" 12 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "1Th" 2 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "1Ti" 3 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "1Ti" 11 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "2Co" 2 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "2Co" 12 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "2Co" 5 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "2Th" 1 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "2Th" 11 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "2Ti" 1 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "2Ti" 12 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "2Ti" 1 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "Col" 1 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "Col" 5 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "Col" 1 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "Eph" 19 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "Eph" 1 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "Gal" 1 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "Gal" 14 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "Gal" 2 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "Phi" 1 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p1 "Phi" 20 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "Phi" 1 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "Phm" 5 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "Phm" 1 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "Rom" 29 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p1 "Rom" 6 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
p1 "Tit" 4 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p2 "Heb" 5 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
p2 "Heb" 4 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p2 "Heb" 5 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
a "1Jo" 5 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
a "1Jo" 4 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
a "1Jo" 3 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
a "1Pe" 10 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
a "2Jo" 1 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
a "2Jo" 1 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
a "2Pe" 1 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
a "2Pe" 8 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
a "Act" 10 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
a "Act" 32 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
a "Act" 27 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
a "Jam" 2 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
a "Jud" 5 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
a "Jud" 1 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
r "Rev" 1 Ιησοῦς (Nominative) n
r "Rev" 13 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g


code
Pentateuch & Old Greek
"Hits"
Joshua (Case)
case
p "Deu" 2 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) g
p "Deu" 3 Ἰησοῖ (Dative) d
p "Exo" 1 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
p "Exo" 1 Ἰησοῖ (Dative) d
p "Num" 4 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
og "1Ch" 1 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "1Es" 8 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "1Ki" 1 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "2Ki" 1 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "2Ma" 1 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Bel" 1 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Ezr" 4 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Hag" 2 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Hag" 2 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
og "Jda" 3 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Jda" 1 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
og "Jdg" 4 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Jos" 7 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Jos" 16 Ἰησοῖ (Dative) d
og "Jos" 29 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a
og "Neh" 12 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Ode" 1 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Zec" 3 Ιησοῦ (Genitive) g
og "Zec" 2 Ιησοῦν (Accusative) a

Please proceed to slice & dice.

DCH
Secret Alias
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Re: Information Confirmation

Post by Secret Alias »

I thought i was the first to explicitly say it. Whatever
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