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Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 pm
by Ben C. Smith
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 4:46 amAFAIK, in the case of Paul at least, only the name Iesou is used.
I think.
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?
But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces
1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.
I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
Do you have a link for that errancy? Here is the verse:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/12-3.htm. Or here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/co1012.htm. I also checked LaParola.
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 4:43 pm
by Jax
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 pm
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 4:46 amAFAIK, in the case of Paul at least, only the name Iesou is used.
I think.
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?
But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces
1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.
I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
Do you have a link for that errancy? Here is the verse:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/12-3.htm. Or here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/co1012.htm. I also checked LaParola.
Ah, I have been using
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInt ... _Index.htm
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Wed May 01, 2019 5:02 pm
by Ben C. Smith
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 4:43 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 pm
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 4:46 amAFAIK, in the case of Paul at least, only the name Iesou is used.
I think.
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?
But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces
1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.
I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
Do you have a link for that errancy? Here is the verse:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/12-3.htm. Or here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/co1012.htm. I also checked LaParola.
Ah, I have been using
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInt ... _Index.htm
That would reflect the Byzantine text. I was hasty when I called it "errancy," but the Byzantine text is almost alone here.
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:50 am
by Jax
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 5:02 pm
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 4:43 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:24 pm
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?
But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces
1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.
I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
Do you have a link for that errancy? Here is the verse:
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/12-3.htm. Or here:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/poly/co1012.htm. I also checked LaParola.
Ah, I have been using
https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInt ... _Index.htm
That would reflect the Byzantine text. I was hasty when I called it "errancy," but the Byzantine text is almost alone here.
Ah, does Biblehub reflect the Alexanderian text then?
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 5:23 am
by Ben C. Smith
Jax wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 4:50 amAh, does Biblehub reflect the Alexanderian text then?
I think it uses Nestle 1904 as the base text. But Nestle 1904 is pretty Alexandrian (as are most modern texts since the days of Westcott and Hort).
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:16 am
by Jax
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 5:23 am
Jax wrote: ↑Thu May 02, 2019 4:50 amAh, does Biblehub reflect the Alexanderian text then?
I think it uses Nestle 1904 as the base text. But Nestle 1904 is pretty Alexandrian (as are most modern texts since the days of Westcott and Hort).
Very well. I will use it instead.
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:35 pm
by Jax
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 3:09 pm
Ben C. Smith wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 6:00 am
Jax wrote: ↑Wed May 01, 2019 4:46 amAFAIK, in the case of Paul at least, only the name Iesou is used.
I think.
If true, this would mean that Paul never uses Jesus as the subject of a sentence (or in any of the few other reasons the nominative is used grammatically). What information would this give you?
But just a quick, informal search (not even using special software) on my part produces
1 Corinthians 12.3, which uses Ἰησοῦς twice.
I imagine the dative and/or genitive Ἰησοῦ is going to be far more common in Paul, however, given his penchant for phrases like "the faith of Jesus Christ" and "in Jesus Christ." But this is just grammar; it has nothing to do with etymology.
I checked that with the Greek Interlinner Bible online and got two cases of IHCOYN at 12:3.
I think I'll troll Paul's letters and see what deviations of Iesou there are and where. I'll post back what I find.
And here we are....
Source =
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/
1 Corinthians: 25 mentions of Jesus. 18 = Iesou. 2 = Iesoun. 5 = Iesous
2:2 = Iesoun
3:11 = Iesous
8:6 = Iesous
9:1 = Iesoun
11:23 = Iesous
12:3 = Iesous x 2
2 Corinthians: 19 mentions of Jesus. 12 = Iesou. 5 = Iesoun. 2 = Iesous
1:19 = Iesous
4:5 = Iesoun x 2
4:11 = Iesoun
4:14 = Iesoun
11:4 = Iesoun
13:5 = Iesous
Galations: 18 mentions of Jesus. 15 = Iesou. 2 = Iesoun. 1 = Iesous
2:16 = Iesoun
3:1 = Iesous
4:14 = Iesoun
Philippians: 22 mentions of Jesus. 20 = Iesou. 1 = Iesoun. 1 = Iesous
2:11 = Iesous
3:20 = Iesoun
1 Thessalonians: 17 mentions of Jesus. 13 = Iesou. 2 = Iesoun. 2 = Iesous
1:10 = Iesoun
2:15 = Iesoun
3:11 = Iesous
4:14 = Iesous
Romans: 38 mentions of Jesus. 30 = Iesou. 7 = Iesoun. 1 = Iesous
4:24 = Iesoun
6:3 = Iesoun
8:11 = Iesoun x 2
8:34 = Iesous
10:9 = Iesoun
13:14 = Iesoun
15:5 = Iesoun
Philamon: 6 mentions of Jesus. 5 = Iesou. 1 = Iesoun
1:5 = Iesoun
And...…
2 Thessalonians: 13 mentions of Jesus. 11 = Iesou. 2 = Iesous
2:8 = Iesous
2:16 = Iesous
Ephesians: 21 mentions of Jesus. 20 = Iesou. 1 = Iesoun
6:24 = Iesoun
Colossians: 7 mentions of Jesus. 5 = Iesou. 1 = Iesoun. 1 = Iesous
2:6 = Iesoun
4:11 = Iesous
Enjoy.
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 4:50 pm
by Ben C. Smith
Thanks for that.
Just a bit of a
caveat here: the term Ἰησοῦ may be overweighted regardless, but bear in mind that it actually covers
two cases: genitive and dative, whereas both Ἰησοῦς and Ἰησοῦν cover only one each: nominative and accusative, respectively. So some extra weight for Ἰησοῦ is not completely unexpected. (Oh, and actually, Ἰησοῦ is also the vocative, but I doubt that ever comes into play in Paul.)
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 7:27 pm
by DCHindley
Jax,
Ben is right, the case endings have nothing to do with etymology.
code |
"NT Book" |
"Hits" |
Jesus (Case) |
case |
| e |
"Joh" |
205 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| e |
"Joh" |
20 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| e |
"Joh" |
26 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| e |
"Luk" |
63 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| e |
"Luk" |
18 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| e |
"Luk" |
15 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| e |
"Mar" |
68 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| e |
"Mar" |
13 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| e |
"Mar" |
11 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| e |
"Mat" |
130 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| e |
"Mat" |
25 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| e |
"Mat" |
16 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"1Co" |
3 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"1Co" |
19 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"1Co" |
2 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"1Th" |
2 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"1Th" |
12 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"1Th" |
2 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"1Ti" |
3 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"1Ti" |
11 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"2Co" |
2 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"2Co" |
12 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"2Co" |
5 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"2Th" |
1 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"2Th" |
11 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"2Ti" |
1 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"2Ti" |
12 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"2Ti" |
1 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"Col" |
1 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"Col" |
5 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"Col" |
1 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"Eph" |
19 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"Eph" |
1 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"Gal" |
1 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"Gal" |
14 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"Gal" |
2 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"Phi" |
1 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p1 |
"Phi" |
20 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"Phi" |
1 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"Phm" |
5 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"Phm" |
1 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"Rom" |
29 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p1 |
"Rom" |
6 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| p1 |
"Tit" |
4 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p2 |
"Heb" |
5 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| p2 |
"Heb" |
4 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p2 |
"Heb" |
5 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| a |
"1Jo" |
5 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| a |
"1Jo" |
4 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| a |
"1Jo" |
3 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| a |
"1Pe" |
10 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| a |
"2Jo" |
1 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| a |
"2Jo" |
1 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| a |
"2Pe" |
1 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| a |
"2Pe" |
8 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| a |
"Act" |
10 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| a |
"Act" |
32 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| a |
"Act" |
27 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| a |
"Jam" |
2 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| a |
"Jud" |
5 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| a |
"Jud" |
1 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| r |
"Rev" |
1 |
Ιησοῦς (Nominative) |
n |
| r |
"Rev" |
13 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
code |
Pentateuch & Old Greek |
"Hits" |
Joshua (Case) |
case |
| p |
"Deu" |
2 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
g |
| p |
"Deu" |
3 |
Ἰησοῖ (Dative) |
d |
| p |
"Exo" |
1 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| p |
"Exo" |
1 |
Ἰησοῖ (Dative) |
d |
| p |
"Num" |
4 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| og |
"1Ch" |
1 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"1Es" |
8 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"1Ki" |
1 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"2Ki" |
1 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"2Ma" |
1 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Bel" |
1 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Ezr" |
4 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Hag" |
2 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Hag" |
2 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| og |
"Jda" |
3 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Jda" |
1 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| og |
"Jdg" |
4 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Jos" |
7 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Jos" |
16 |
Ἰησοῖ (Dative) |
d |
| og |
"Jos" |
29 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
| og |
"Neh" |
12 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Ode" |
1 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Zec" |
3 |
Ιησοῦ (Genitive) |
g |
| og |
"Zec" |
2 |
Ιησοῦν (Accusative) |
a |
Please proceed to slice & dice.
DCH
Re: Information Confirmation
Posted: Fri May 03, 2019 4:55 am
by Secret Alias
I thought i was the first to explicitly say it. Whatever