Mishmarot and Passover of 4 BCE and 9 CE

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
Post Reply
Charles Wilson
Posts: 1486
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Mishmarot and Passover of 4 BCE and 9 CE

Post by Charles Wilson » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:39 am

Some days I'm more conscious of Thread Hi-jacking than others...

Martin Klatt asked for some Proofs of the Assertions I make and I thought that a good place to start would be the Passover of 4 BCE. I have stated that I believe the Stories surrounding this Passover form the basis of many of the Gospel Stories. Josephus provides the external story (Antiquities, 17, 9, 3 and Wars... 2, 1, 3), the Gospels provide the internal Story. The Romans rewrote the Stories into the story of a tax-payin', Roman lovin', turn the other cheek savior/god.

So: Years ago, on another forum, there was some discussion of some of these issues and out of the clear-blue comes a Post from a regular named David Christensen - Dacry-7 or Old Believer. There have been a coupla' Posts and Internet Searches that literally caused me to stop and simply stare at the screen for ten or more minutes. This was one of them. I owe so much, so much to David Christensen. At some point, he ended communications. RIP, prolly.

I reproduce one of his E-Mails below. First, however:
Martin Klatt wrote:...you don't convince me with just stones and narrow escapes let me warn you, it better be good.
Charles Wilson wrote:Most amazing stuff I've ever looked at.
1. Eisenman and Wise, Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered, pp. 108 - 109.

Mishmarot: 1 Chronicles 24: 7 - 18 (RSV):

[7] The first lot fell to Jehoi'arib, the second to Jedai'ah,
[8] the third to Harim, the fourth to Se-o'rim,
[9] the fifth to Malchi'jah, the sixth to Mij'amin,
[10] the seventh to Hakkoz, the eighth to Abi'jah,
[11] the ninth to Jeshua, the tenth to Shecani'ah,
[12] the eleventh to Eli'ashib, the twelfth to Jakim,
[13] the thirteenth to Huppah, the fourteenth to Jesheb'e-ab,
[14] the fifteenth to Bilgah, the sixteenth to Immer,
[15] the seventeenth to Hezir, the eighteenth to Hap'pizzez,
[16] the nineteenth to Pethahi'ah, the twentieth to Jehez'kel,
[17] the twenty-first to Jachin, the twenty-second to Gamul,
[18] the twenty-third to Delai'ah, the twenty-fourth to Ma-azi'ah.

2. See: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/mi ... -ma-amadot for instance. The Hasmoneans may have massaged the List by placing "Jehoiarib" #1. The 16th Group, Immer, also believes the Dynastic Hasmoneans came from them (Elizur, Leibner). Each Group rotated into Jerusalem on the Sabbath for one week. The Qumran Group tracked the calendars and used the Mishmarot Rotations as a check (E&W).

There are only a few stories concerning the various Mishmarot Groups. In Luke for the NT but elsewhere there are 3, concerning Jehoiarib, Bilgah and Immer. These 3 Stories are all important.

3. 24 Groups x 7 days = 168 days until the Rotation repeated.

Homework Assignment: FInd out which Groups were on Duty for Passover and the Feast Week of 4 BCE, at the death of Herod.
Hint: You have no Anchor Date that fixes one Group being on duty until you find that Jehoiarib was Serving at the Destruction of the Temple.

Rabbi Jose ben Halafta:

"Whence do we know that the second Temple was also destroyed on the 9th of Abh? We have learned in a Boraitha: “A happy event is credited to the day on which another happy event happened, while a calamity is ascribed to the day when another calamity occurred; and it was said that when the first Temple was destroyed it was on the eve preceding the 9th of Abh, which was also the night at the close of the Sabbath and also the close of the Sabbatical year. The watch at the time was that of Jehoyoreb..."

Count back in groups of 168 days until you get to Passover of 4 BCE.


4. You do the Math. Who was on duty for the Passover of 4 BCE?
Do you believe this? Or is this strictly Literary?
The last question is not rhetorical. You can argue calendars and Holy Days and whether Rabbi Jose is making a Construction of not. I have mentioned Zakkai several times and figuring out what was allowed by Vespasion at Yavneh is important. As to whether this is True or not is for later. The writers hid much of this fairly well. Nicholas of Damascus at Caesarea? Zakkai? Other Priests who survived (and there weren't many...)?

Here is the E-Mail from DC. I have placed the info in other forms but this is very straightforward. Follow the Logic and verify it.
[Note: "JD" = "Julian Day Calendar". It is less important than one might think here. What counts are the Weekly Mishmarot Rotations. Remember that the Qumran group used the Mishmarot Cycle as a check on the various Lunar, Luni-Solar and Solar Calendars.]
David Christensen wrote:Nisan in 4BC and 9AD began soon after these New Moons:
-3 Nisan Mar 27 03:58 JD 1720048 Tuesday
  9 Nisan Mar 15 10:20 JD 1724419 Friday
Passover began a couple of weeks after both dates.

Adding sufficient days to bring them to the Saturday following, when the
next priestly course would begin, produces JD 1720052 and 1724420. The
distance between them is 4368, which is a multiple of 168 (4420 - 0052 /
168 = 26). Therefore, whichever course began serving on one of those
Saturdays also began serving on the other. And, adding 14 days to both,
whichever course began Saturday 1720066 also began Saturday 1724434.

The course of Jehoiarib was on duty when the Temple was destroyed on the
ninth or tenth of Ab. Saturday, 8 Ab, 4th August, 70, 1746841, is
between multiples 133 and 134 of 168 from the second Saturday
above-mentioned (1746841 - 1724420 / 168 = 133.46). Multiple 133 begins
1746764 (133 * 168 + 1724420 = 1746764), or Saturday, 19th May 70, 11
weeks earlier (841 - 764 / 7 = 11).

Course 1746764 = Course 1724420 = Course 1720052.
Course 1746841 = beginning of Jehoiarib's Course.

The synchronicity produces the following table, which shows that Immer
began duty on Saturday Julian 1720066 and Saturday Julian 1724434, both
of them in Passover Week.

70      9AD    4BC  Course

1746764 1724420 1720052 Jeshebeab
1746771 1724427 1720059 Bilgah
1746778 1724434 1720066 Immer
1746785 1724441 1720073 Hezir
1746792 1724448 1720080 Happizzez
1746799 1724455 1720087 Pethahiah
1746806 1724462 1720094 Jehezkel
1746813 1724469 1720101 Jachin
1746820 1724476 1720108 Gamul
1746827 1724483 1720115 Delaiah
1746834 1724490 1720122 Maaziah
1746841 1724497 1720129 Jehoiarib
1746848 1724504 1720136 Jedaiah
1746855 1724511 1720143 Harim
1746862 1724518 1720150 Seorim
1746869 1724525 1720157 Malchijah
1746876 1724532 1720164 Mijamin
1746883 1724539 1720171 Hakkoz
1746890 1724546 1720178 Abijah
1746897 1724553 1720185 Jeshua
1746904 1724560 1720192 Shecaniah
1746911 1724567 1720199 Eliashib
1746918 1724574 1720206 Jakim
1746925 1724581 1720213 Huppah
This is a good place to start to see why the Mishmarot Priesthood was important to the New Testament.

Martin: Does this make sense to you?


Charles Wilson
Posts: 1486
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: Mishmarot and Passover of 4 BCE and 9 CE

Post by Charles Wilson » Sun May 12, 2019 7:15 am

Martin --

I see you are Posting again. Am I to assume that you have verified what I asserted? You did the Math? You found that Immer was on Duty for both Passover/Feast weeks? It was serious to you then. Is it serious now?


Martin Klatt
Posts: 107
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2018 5:10 am

Re: Mishmarot and Passover of 4 BCE and 9 CE

Post by Martin Klatt » Mon May 13, 2019 6:46 am

Last edited by Martin Klatt on Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
What I have written, I have written........., but it ain't necessarily so.

Charles Wilson
Posts: 1486
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 8:13 am

Re: Mishmarot and Passover of 4 BCE and 9 CE

Post by Charles Wilson » Mon May 13, 2019 6:54 am

Your omniscience must be a terrible burden to you.

Post Reply