Why just the Baptism of John was the "sign of Jonah"

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Giuseppe
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Why just the Baptism of John was the "sign of Jonah"

Post by Giuseppe » Sun May 12, 2019 11:22 am

I had thought (wrongly) that Jesus didn't reply here, in Mark 11:

27 They arrived again in Jerusalem, and while Jesus was walking in the temple courts, the chief priests, the teachers of the law and the elders came to him. 28 “By what authority are you doing these things?” they asked. “And who gave you authority to do this?”

29 Jesus replied, “I will ask you one question. Answer me, and I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 30 John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin? Tell me!”

31 They discussed it among themselves and said, “If we say, ‘From heaven,’ he will ask, ‘Then why didn’t you believe him?’ 32 But if we say, ‘Of human origin’ …” (They feared the people, for everyone held that John really was a prophet.)

33 So they answered Jesus, “We don’t know.”

Jesus said, “Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.”

But really he had replied, since the answer is made explicit in Matthew 12:

Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.”

39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth

(Matthew 12)

In Mark Jesus refers to the enigma "John the Baptist".

In Matthew, ceteris paribus, Jesus refers to the enigma "the sign of Jonah".

The two enigmas are one and the same: the god fish, aka Oannes.

At Babylon there was (in these times) a great resort of people of various nations, who inhabited Chaldæa, and lived in a lawless manner like the beasts of the field. In the first year there appeared, from that part of the Erythræan sea which borders upon Babylonia, an animal destitute of reason, by name Oannes, whose whole body (according to the account of Apollodorus) was that of a fish; that under the fish’s head he had another head, with feet also below, similar to those of a man, subjoined to the fish’s tail. His voice too, and language, was articulate and human; and a representation of him is preserved even to this day.

This Being was accustomed to pass the day among men; but took no food at that season; and he gave them an insight into letters and sciences, and arts of every kind. He taught them to construct cities, to found temples, to compile laws, and explained to them the principles of geometrical knowledge. He made them distinguish the seeds of the earth, and shewed them how to collect the fruits; in short, he instructed them in every thing which could tend to soften manners and humanize their lives. From that time, nothing material has been added by way of improvement to his instructions. And when the sun had set, this Being Oannes, retired again into the sea, and passed the night in the deep; for he was amphibious. After this there appeared other animals like Oannes, of which Berossus proposes to give an account when he comes to the history of the kings. Moreover Oannes wrote concerning the generation of mankind; and of their civil polity; and the following is the purport of what he said: . . . .

http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/af/af02.htm
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Why just the Baptism of John was the "sign of Jonah"

Post by Giuseppe » Sun May 12, 2019 11:39 am

The god fish Oannes swallows Jesus ("Jonah") by baptizing him.

The his baptism by John allegorizes the his death and resurrection.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
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Re: Why just the Baptism of John was the "sign of Jonah"

Post by Giuseppe » Mon May 13, 2019 4:17 am

That Jonah name's in the Greek Old Testament is Ιωνας Ionas, similar to Ὡάννης Oannes.

It is impossible that it is a mere coincidence, the fact that Jonah and John the Baptist share:
  • 1) parallelisms with the god fish Ioannes
  • 2) the function of enigmatic "sign" in the answer of Jesus to scribes and pharisees.

The Jesus's answer about John has another feature:
  • in Mark the baptism by John is partially of divine origin, partially of human origin.
  • Ioannes is half man, half fish.

The enigmatic nature of Ioannes is shared by John.


Way was "Mark" interested to euhemerize this mythological figure as John the Baptist?

Because he had need of an actor for Elijah (if "Mark" adored the god of Elijah).

Because he had to simbolize the logical precedence of the faculty of knowing over the acquisition of knowledge (if "Mark" hated the god of the Jews).

In both the cases, the god fish, in virtue of the his dual nature, allegorizes perfectly the passage from a previous status to a best status, lead to full realization by the coming Messiah.

Stantibus rebus, John the Baptist probably never existed.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

Giuseppe
Posts: 5428
Joined: Mon Apr 27, 2015 5:37 am
Location: Italy

Re: Why just the Baptism of John was the "sign of Jonah"

Post by Giuseppe » Mon May 13, 2019 7:56 am

So the sense of the answer/question of Jesus:


John’s baptism—was it from heaven, or of human origin?

...may be better interpreted as:

Ioannes — was he a fish, or a man?


Hence:

The faculty of knowing the identity of Jesus — is it from heaven, or of human origin?


Therefore Jesus is simply denying the possibility for the men to know the his identity. Only the insiders - the "knowers" (the γνωστικοί) - have that particular faculty.
Nihil enim in speciem fallacius est quam prava religio. -Liv. xxxix. 16.

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