Doudna: Antigonus: Wicked Priest hung up alive on a cross

[maryhelena]

For some time now I have maintained that the last King and High Priest of the Jews, Antigonus, was the historical model for the crucifixion element of the gospel Jesus story. (I view the gospel Jesus as a literary composite figure). I have previously made reference to Cassius Dio:

Roman History, book xlix, c.22

"These people [the Jews] Antony entrusted to a certain Herod to govern; but Antigonus he bound to a cross and scourged, a punishment no other king had suffered at the hands of the Romans, and so slew him."

Josephus: Ant.book.15.

When Antony had taken Antigonus prisoner, he decided to keep him for his triumph, but when he heard how the nation was still rebellious and in their hatred for Herod, still favoured Antigonus, he decided to behead him in Antioch, for in no other way could the Jews be pacified.

Because the Josephan writer does not mention Antigonus being bound to a cross prior to being beheaded - Cassius Dio' statement has been questioned.

However, there is now a new interpretation of documents from Qumran by Greg Doudna. A new interpretation that seeks to identify the Wicked Priest of these documents as Antigonus - who was hanged alive.

Qumran Revisited: a Reassessment of the Archaeology of the Site and its Texts

http://asorblog.org/?p=6550

A pdf article by Doudna:

ALLUSIONS TO THE END OF THE HASMONEAN DYNASTY
IN PESHER NAHUM (4Q169)

http://scrollery.com/wp-content/uploads ... 59-278.pdf

The major objection raised in secondary literature to this reading
of Pesher Nahum, as alluding to a doomed ruler of Israel hung up
alive, has actually been a non-textual reason: a perception that nothing
corresponds with such an image in known history. Was there ever a
Jewish ruler, a Hasmonean king or high priest, in the era of these texts
who was hung up alive? Actually, there was.
.....

Antigonus Mattathias was captured in Jerusalem and killed by gentiles in a foreign country.
And of particular interest in light of the allusion in Pesher Nahum is
the fact that Cassius Dio, the Roman historian, says that Antigonus
Mattathias was hung up alive on a cross and tortured in the process of
being executed by Mark Antony. In his death at the hands of gentiles
Antigonus Mattathias corresponds with the portrayal of the death of
the Wicked Priest, and Antigonus Mattathias is the only Hasmonean
ruler of the first century bce who does.
And so it seems to me that the wicked ruler of these texts reflects
Antigonus Mattathias, and that the Lion of Wrath alludes to Mark
Antony who hung up alive Antigonus...

[my bolding]

Doudna has contributed to the book:

Qumran Revisited: A Reassessment of the Archaeology of the Site and its Texts (British Archaeological Reports International Series)

Did the gospel writers used the historical crucifixion, the hanging on a cross, of Antigonus, for their pseudo-historical crucifixion story of their gospel Jesus? With Greg Doudna' interpretation of the Qumran documents - the plausibility that that is indeed what they have done is considerable.....

[DCHindley]

Whoo-wee!

Haven't seen or heard from Greg in a long long time.

Last I knew he was teaching at a community college.

We just might, possibly, hear from Spin on this matter.

DCH

[maryhelena]

Whoo-wee!

Haven't seen or heard from Greg in a long long time.

Last I knew he was teaching at a community college.

We just might, possibly, hear from Spin on this matter.

DCH

That might be interesting.....

In case you missed my earlier reference to Greg Doudna - on the Ehrman thread - here it is:

http://www.bibleinterp.com/articles/201 ... 8008.shtml

A Jerusalem tomb, ‘blind leading the blind’ or just another Day in Paradise? Joe Zias

comments on this article are by Doudna.

[andrewcriddle]

The standard translation of Cassius Dio on the end of Antigonus is

These people Antony entrusted to a certain Herod to govern; but Antigonus he bound to a cross and flogged, — a punishment no other king had suffered at the hands of the Romans, — and afterwards slew him.

The Greek is

ἐκείνους μὲν οὖν Ἡρώδῃ τινὶ ὁ Ἀντώνιος ἄρχειν ἐπέτρεψε, τὸν δ᾽ Ἀντίγονον ἐμαστίγωσε σταυρῷ προσδήσας, ὃ μηδεὶς βασιλεὺς ἄλλος ὑπὸ τῶν Ῥωμαίων ἐπεπόνθει, καὶ μετὰ τοῦτο καὶ ἀπέσφαξεν.

This implies that Antigonus was flogged while bound to a cross and later executed. Probably by being beheaded see Josephus.

Now when Antony had received Antigonus as his captive, he determined to keep him against his triumph; but when he heard that the nation grew seditious, and that, out of their hatred to Herod, they continued to bear good-will to Antigonus, he resolved to behead him at Antioch, for otherwise the Jews could no way be brought to be quiet. And Strabo of Cappadocia attests to what I have said, when he thus speaks: "Antony ordered Antigonus the Jew to be brought to Antioch, and there to be beheaded. And this Antony seems to me to have been the very first man who beheaded a king, as supposing he could no other way bend the minds of the Jews so as to receive Herod, whom he had made king in his stead; for by no torments could they he forced to call him king, so great a fondness they had for their former king; so he thought that this dishonorable death would diminish the value they had for Antigonus's memory, and at the same time would diminish the hatred they bare to Herod." Thus far Strabo.

Andrew Criddle

[maryhelena]

The standard translation of Cassius Dio on the end of Antigonus is

These people Antony entrusted to a certain Herod to govern; but Antigonus he bound to a cross and flogged, — a punishment no other king had suffered at the hands of the Romans, — and afterwards slew him.

The Greek is

ἐκείνους μὲν οὖν Ἡρώδῃ τινὶ ὁ Ἀντώνιος ἄρχειν ἐπέτρεψε, τὸν δ᾽ Ἀντίγονον ἐμαστίγωσε σταυρῷ προσδήσας, ὃ μηδεὶς βασιλεὺς ἄλλος ὑπὸ τῶν Ῥωμαίων ἐπεπόνθει, καὶ μετὰ τοῦτο καὶ ἀπέσφαξεν.

This implies that Antigonus was flogged while bound to a cross and later executed. Probably by being beheaded see Josephus.

Now when Antony had received Antigonus as his captive, he determined to keep him against his triumph; but when he heard that the nation grew seditious, and that, out of their hatred to Herod, they continued to bear good-will to Antigonus, he resolved to behead him at Antioch, for otherwise the Jews could no way be brought to be quiet. And Strabo of Cappadocia attests to what I have said, when he thus speaks: "Antony ordered Antigonus the Jew to be brought to Antioch, and there to be beheaded. And this Antony seems to me to have been the very first man who beheaded a king, as supposing he could no other way bend the minds of the Jews so as to receive Herod, whom he had made king in his stead; for by no torments could they he forced to call him king, so great a fondness they had for their former king; so he thought that this dishonorable death would diminish the value they had for Antigonus's memory, and at the same time would diminish the hatred they bare to Herod." Thus far Strabo.

Andrew Criddle

OK

The point is: - Antigonus was bound to a cross - later taken down and executed via being beheaded.

Crucifixion does not have to, or always, end in death - dead bodies were nailed to crosses for public humiliation. Josephus says he took down a body from a cross and the man lived.

Josephus: Life

I saw many captives being crucified and recognised three of them as former acquaintances of mine. In distress about this I went to Titus and with tears told him about them. Immediately he ordered them taken down and every effort to be made for their recovery. In fact, two of them died under the physician's hands, but the third recovered.

Antigonus was bound upon a cross - Cassius Dio. And now, Greg Doudha has an interpretation of a document from Qumran regarding his interpretation of the Wicked Priest who was 'hung alive on a cross'.

Antigonus was crucified - Antigonus was bound to a cross and flogged. Antigonus was taken down from the cross and beheaded. Thus, Hasmonean/Jewish history of the last King and High Priest of the Jews, can be viewed as being reflected in the crucifixion story of the gospel JC. A story about a crucifixion of a King of the Jews.

Yes, of course, this history of Antigonus being crucified, being bound to a cross, is not the only history reflected in the pseudo-historical gospel JC story - but it is one element of that story.

[Tenorikuma]

Thanks, Mary Helena. That's very interesting.

[Charles Wilson]

maryhelena!

This is the meaning of John 2: 18 -20:

[18] The Jews then said to him, "What sign have you to show us for doing this?"
[19] Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."
[20] The Jews then said, "It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?"

You can find on this site several references I have made to 2 Passovers, the Passover of 4 BCE where at least 3000 were killed and the Passover of 9 CE.
Here is one of the reasons you need to take this idea seriously:
This is a Time Marker. The Priest(s) who "Miraculously" survived the Slaughter of 4 BCE are preparing for a Duplicate Passover in 9. They are in Upper Galilee preparing for their Mishmarot Service at this Passover, probably at the end of their previous year. There are Stories telling of the Coming Cleansing of the Temple and the elimination of the Romans.
Simple subtraction tells you that "It has taken 46 years..." takes you back to the death of Antigonus. "The Jews" know what this "Jesus" (this Priest, actually...) is referring to.

CW

[steve43]

Dio wrote 150 years after Josephus.

Putting someone a cross would be an easy way to immobilize the arms extended for maximum benefit of a flogging.

Do you have a source for the three thousand death figure at the Passover of 4 B.C.?

[Charles Wilson]

Josephus, Antiquities..., 17, 9, 3:

"Now Archelaus thought there was no way to preserve the entire government but by cutting off those who made this attempt upon it; so he sent out the whole army upon them, and sent the horsemen to prevent those that had their tents without the temple from assisting those that were within the temple, and to kill such as ran away from the footmen when they thought themselves out of danger; which horsemen slew three thousand men, while the rest went to the neighboring mountains..."

War..., 2, 1, 3:

"...nor did it appear to Archelaus that the multitude could be restrained without bloodshed; so he sent his whole army upon them, the footmen in great multitudes, by the way of the city, and the horsemen by the way of the plain, who, falling upon them on the sudden, as they were offering their sacrifices, destroyed about three thousand of them; but the rest of the multitude were dispersed upon the adjoining mountains: these were followed by Archelaus's heralds, who commanded every one to retire to their own homes, whither they all went, and left the festival..."

[Diogenes the Cynic]

The Greek word translated as "cross" is stauros. Stauros means any kind of stake or upright pole (it literally means a "standing thing") and does not have to denote a cross as for crucifixion. It could as easily mean a whipping post, which is what Dio appears to be talking about.