Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Discussion about the New Testament, apocrypha, gnostics, church fathers, Christian origins, historical Jesus or otherwise, etc.
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Secret Alias
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Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:45 am

משה = 345

52 = אליהו

=

יהושוע = 397
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:46 am

This surely is the reason.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:57 am

4Q40 Deuteronomy m

Frgs. 1–3, Deuteronomy 3:18–22

1 3:18 [ ל]א֯מור יהוה אלוהי֯[כמה נתן לכמה את הארץ הזאת] לרשתה[ ]

2 [ בני ]ישראל כול ב[ני חיל vacat? 19 רק ]נ֯ש֯יכמה וֿט֯פ֯כ֯[מ]ה֯ ‸[ומ]ק֯נ֯יֿכֿמֿהֿ‸ ידעתי [ ]

3 [ אש]ר֯ נתתי ל֯כ֯[מ]ה֯ 20 ע֯ד֯ א֯ש֯ר֯ יניח יהוה ‸אלוהי כמה‸ לאחיכמה ככמה֯[ ]

4 [ה]מ֯ה את הא[רץ אשר יהוה ]אלוהכימה נותן להמה בעבר הי[רדן ו]ש֯ב֯[תמה ]

5 [ ]◦◦[ 21 ו]אֿתֿ יהושוע צויתי בעתֿ ההֿיֿאה לא[מור ]

6 [ ]לשני המלכים האלה כן יע[שה ]

7 [ ]◦[ש]ם֯ 22 ולו֯א֯[ תי]רֿא֯ו֯ם֯[ ]
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Secret Alias
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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:59 am

Also the Book of Joshua from Qumran - https://books.google.com/books?id=Bt55D ... an&f=false
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:08 am

Also = αλλογενης
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:56 pm

It is curious that the Semitic tradition has the voice from heaven announce "this is my son and my beloved" when "son" בן in Hebrew has the name numerological value as Elijah = 52
Last edited by Secret Alias on Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Secret Alias » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:52 pm

And נרצה = acceptable, chosen would be the gematria for Moses or 345
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Stuart » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:13 pm

That's sort of interesting. Just as all the Greek and sometimes Latin numerology you find with Christianity. But almost certainly secondary if not tertiary. The more straight forward explanation seems to fit the passage(s) better.

Moses represents the Law (Torah)
Elijah represents the Prophets (Nevi'im)

When the three appear in a vision, Peter says let's make three tents. The tents are of course tabernacles to pray. Peter gets it wrong, making the Law and Prophets equal with Jesus. So a voice from heaven says for (Simon) Peter -- Simon means "one who hears the deity" -- "This is my beloved son, listen to him." Basically Peter is being told, of these three teachings, listen to Jesus. When Peter looks the other two are gone, underscoring that they are no longer present, only Jesus is to be heard. (John and James are said to be there, but are silent like cardboard cutouts in the background)

Christianity, that is Jesus, is superior to and subjecting/displacing or outright replacing (take your pick Christians of various sects argued for each of these positions) the Law and Prophets, that is Judaism. The Law and Prophets vanish but Jesus is here.

Now, Elijah is widely considered the most important and powerful of the Jewish prophets. Christians even came to believe that John the Baptist was Elijah's spirit returned. His being chosen is perfectly obvious for that reason. His name appears repeatedly in the synoptic gospels, and no other prophet ever represents more than a writer of a book, as his actions are talked about. So it seems only right that he be chosen to represent the prophets.

The numerology, and in Hebrew at that, is almost certainly mere coincidence. But it is interesting.
“’That was excellently observed’, say I, when I read a passage in an author, where his opinion agrees with mine. When we differ, there I pronounce him to be mistaken.” - Jonathan Swift

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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by moses » Thu Jun 13, 2019 3:50 am

Moses represents the Law (Torah)
Elijah represents the Prophets (Nevi'im)
why is the transfiguration story found in the gospel of matthew? i thought that matthew was pro-jewish than the other gospels. does matthew interpret the same story like you did?

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Re: Why Moses and Elijah Appear With Jesus on the Mountain

Post by Secret Alias » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:41 am

The math is unlikely to be coincidental
“Finally, from so little sleeping and so much reading, his brain dried up and he went completely out of his mind.”
― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra, Don Quixote

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