Metacrock is still apologizing...

[Metacrock]

Yes they do. just becuase they are not written by the name sakes doesn't' mean they don't have eye witnesses. You don't know that. Bauckham has real good arguments about it.

Metacrock continues on his 'If I name enough Christians, somebody might think I have evidence' campaign.

Bauckham's arguments are so ad hoc that the guy is a crank.

At least, he had to wait until he had retired from academia before daring to publish his book on eyewitnesses.

Stevie you don't know crap about this stuff. I've seen on boards and on the CADRE blog and stuff for years, not once have I seen a single post where I thought you knew anything.

[Metacrock]

Yes they do. just becuase they are not written by the name sakes doesn't' mean they don't have eye witnesses. You don't know that. Bauckham has real good arguments about it.

Metacrock continues on his 'If I name enough Christians, somebody might think I have evidence' campaign.

Bauckham's arguments are so ad hoc that the guy is a crank.

At least, he had to wait until he had retired from academia before daring to publish his book on eyewitnesses.

Steve. I've seen you on boards for years. I have never seen a post by you that impressed me as you knowing anything. If you ad the goods you could let your knowledge speak for you. You don't have the knowledge.

You have been doing this person insult stuff since I have gotten here I've tried not to give in to it because I really get enough of that on carm. You don't know when to shut up.

Put what little knowledge you have where your mouth is and try say to say something acute for a change.

[Diogenes the Cynic]

every indication is given by Irenaeous, Papis, Polycarp that the Johns they knew were there for most of the action and saw what Jesus did and heard what he said. that makes them eye witnesses.

Eusebius says that John the Elder was not the Apostle, but there is no evidence that either of those figures wrote the Fourth Gospel. The author does not identify himself. The name "John" is not even in the Gospel at all except when it refers to John the Baptist. The appendix is meaningless. Lots of Christian writings contain claims to have come from this or that disciple. The Gospel of Thomas says it was was written down by Judas Thomas, the twin brother of Jesus. At least some of it was probably written earlier than GJohn.

Why does the author of GJohn think that Christians were expelled from synagogues during the life of Jesus? That didn't happen until the 90's. How could a disciple get that so wrong? Alzheimers, maybe?

[Mental flatliner]

Why does the author of GJohn think that Christians were expelled from synagogues during the life of Jesus? That didn't happen until the 90's. How could a disciple get that so wrong? Alzheimers, maybe?

The Pharisees were practicing political murders as early as 80 BC. Excommunication is much easier.

Since you have no material on this particular practice, it's safe to say you just made up this claim.

(Also, the Jewish authorities expelled all Samaritans from the temple early in Jesus' lifetime, demonstrating that it was certainly in practice.)

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Why does the author of GJohn think that Christians were expelled from synagogues during the life of Jesus? That didn't happen until the 90's. How could a disciple get that so wrong? Alzheimers, maybe?

The Pharisees were practicing political murders as early as 80 BC.

your evidence for this is what?

Since you have no material on this particular practice, it's safe to say you just made up this claim.

What do you think I made up? That John says Christians were expelled from synagogues while Jesus was alive or that the expulsion didn't happen until the 90's?

[Mental flatliner]

Since you have no material on this particular practice, it's safe to say you just made up this claim.

What do you think I made up? That John says Christians were expelled from synagogues while Jesus was alive or that the expulsion didn't happen until the 90's?

If you've never read Josephus on the matter, and their abuse of Queen Alexandra's authority, for example, then I'm betting you've never read anything from 0 to 90, either.

(Now that was an easy trap. You really need to be more careful.)

[Diogenes the Cynic]

Josephus says nothing about Christians being expelled from synagogues. You should stop trying to front when it's abundantly clear you don't know the material.

[stevencarrwork]

Yes they do. just becuase they are not written by the name sakes doesn't' mean they don't have eye witnesses. You don't know that. Bauckham has real good arguments about it.

Steve. I've seen you on boards for years. I have never seen a post by you that impressed me as you knowing anything. If you ad the goods you could let your knowledge speak for you. You don't have the knowledge.

You have been doing this person insult stuff since I have gotten here I've tried not to give in to it because I really get enough of that on carm. You don't know when to shut up.

Put what little knowledge you have where your mouth is and try say to say something acute for a change.

[/quote]

Metacrock is furious that somebody pointed out that not only is he arguing from authority, rather than giving evidence, but his authority is not even an authority.

His advice to people who don't buy his argument from authority - shut up....

[stevencarrwork]

Josephus says nothing about Christians being expelled from synagogues. You should stop trying to front when it's abundantly clear you don't know the material.

Why are you talking to Metacrock as though he was open to reality?

[beowulf]

Joe Hoffman has a theory that the virgin birth was invented as an apologetic to cover up for some kind of questionable paternity. I think that actually makes some sense since there really was no expectation at all that the Messiah would be born of a virgin.

Slavonic Josephus has some interesting wording:

“A star shall shine forth from Jacob
and a man shall arise from Judah’.
And Daniel writes that a priest is to come,
but we do not know who this is. We reckon
that he will be born without a father.”

Josephus' Jewish War and Its Slavonic Version: A Synoptic Comparison
H. Leeming (Editor), K. Leeming (Editor)

[my bolding]

"born without a father" that could be read that the father of the child died prior to the birth of the child. i.e. the child has no living father. Enough prospects in that scenario for storytellers to spin their pseudo-historical virgin birth narrative - the dead father has disappeared from view. All that is left is a 'virgin', a young woman, with a child. A situation faced by many women in times of war - or peace.

One thing in the world ruled by primary sources that has often amused me is the near inerrancy attributed to Slavonic Josephus and the inescapable authority of Joe Doe and his theory .

There are other such verses chanted with gusto by the ever-ready choir , but I have forgotten those.